'The Abrams Report' for Sept. 7
Read the complete transcript to Tuesday's showUpdated: 10:56 a.m. ET Sept. 8, 2004Guests: John Clune, Lin Wood, William Portanova, Jim Thomas, Leslie Crocker Snyder, Louise Shelley, Sajjan Gohel
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DAN ABRAMS, MSNBC ANCHOR, THE ABRAMS REPORT: Coming up, the lawyers for the woman accusing Kobe Bryant of rape join us live. The criminal case against Kobe Bryant crumbled after the allege victim refused to testify. But her civil lawsuit is still on. Is it really going to trial? Have they already reached a deal? We‘ll ask her attorneys.
Plus, Michael Jackson admits to paying over $2 million to another young boy he once befriended. That makes at least two payouts. Does that make this criminal case tougher to defend?
...
Michael Jackson coming up, admits he paid money to another boy who is then not allowed to talk about their relationship. What is word of another payoff do to the current case against Jackson?
Plus Scott Peterson‘s lawyers haven‘t presented their case and the prosecutors are already on guard trying to prove that police looked into all possible leads before accusing him of murder. Why are they trying to justify their prosecution so early in the case?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Michael Jackson‘s back in the headlines responding to a “Dateline” NBC investigation revealing another possible victim. In 1990, Jackson reportedly paid more than $2 million to a 12-year-old boy to keep details of whatever happened between them secret. Jackson is not denying the payout this time. Here‘s what he had to say after Dateline‘s discovery.
Quote, I settled with certain individuals because I was concerned about my family and the media scrutiny that would have ensued if I‘d fought the matter in court. It is unfortunate that some individuals have seen fit to come forward and make a complaint that is completely false. Quite frankly I question the timing and motive of this report.
The boy in this recently discovered settlement, the son of a Neverland ranch employee. Police found out about him while they were investigating the publicized 1993 molestation allegations of another boy. Jackson settled with that accuser for nearly $25 million. Both boys have not cooperated with prosecutors leaving them without a criminal case. My take.
It is hard to accept Jackson‘s repeated statements that there was no wrongdoing and yet still be willing to pay millions to these accusers. This is the way I feel in every case. Joining me now, Jim Thomas, the former Santa Barbara sheriff that lead the investigation into the 1993 molestation allegations against Jackson. He is now a MSNBC news analyst and criminal defense attorney William Portanova. Bill, I mean am I just being too cynical in the fact that I just think when anyone pays millions and millions of dollars to settle cases, that you just don‘t settle cases where you did absolutely nothing wrong.
WILLIAM PORTANOVA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The truth is at this point, yeah. This is salacious gossip. There is no question that a guy that pays that‘s kind of money is worried about something. But here‘s the problem from a prosecution standpoint. Since that was a negotiated settlement, there‘s a good chance that everything about it may be inadmissible in the next proceeding.
ABRAMS: I think that‘s probably the case. But, still, Jim Thomas, I mean as someone who was investigating the ‘93, did you find this case in the context of investigating the ‘93 case?
JIM THOMAS, NBC NEWS ANALYST: Yes, we did Dan. In fact, when we were looking at the first boy, the boy that settled for the $25 million, some of the employees said that we should go talk to a second boy, which we did. We talked to him in 1993 and found that he claimed he had been molested in 1990 and some time after that date was paid in excess of $2 million not to go to court.
ABRAMS: Jim, you know what the Jackson supporters say, right. They‘re saying that Michael Jackson is constantly a target and that he has just tried to settle with these people to avoid these kinds–to get these cases to trial, to make them go away, actually, let me play a quick piece of sound from 1993, Michael Jackson. Let‘s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON: There have been many disgusting statements made recently concerning allegations of improper conduct on my part. These statements about me are totally false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Jim, what to make of that?
THOMAS: Well, you know, I‘ve had my opinion for some time because I‘ve been involved in the case for so long. And with all due respect to Bill, it‘s my understanding that both boys could be called if the judge thought that it could establish a pattern. Now we do know that both of them were put on notice to possibly testify in the grand jury earlier this year. But the D.A chose not to use them for the grand jury process and we‘ll have to wait and see whether he wants to use them at trial or not.
ABRAMS: And Bill, you‘re not suggesting that the D.A. couldn‘t call them. You‘re just saying that they may not be able to discuss certain aspects of the settlement, right?
PORTANOVA: That‘s exactly right but there‘s a bigger problem for the prosecutor here, too. There‘s no doubt that if some attorney engineered those settlements for these boys 10 years ago, one of the conditions of the settlement to get that kind of money was to no doubt include a sworn statement saying that there has never been any physical contact. And I‘m quite certain–
ABRAMS: Really?
PORTANOVA: As part of a negotiated settlement, I‘m quite certain that an attorney would insist on that to protect the client in the future and that may be the biggest problem that the prosecutor has even if he gets that evidence in now.
ABRAMS: Jim, do you know anything about that? Any sworn statements?
THOMAS: I don‘t think so. But nonetheless, I think Bill brings out a pretty good point. When you bring in ‘93, you‘re bringing in old material. I‘m not so certain that the D.A. may not choose just to work on this case. It‘s cleaner. He has tremendous faith in this victim and this family. And it is something that is recent.
ABRAMS: All right. We shall see. Jim Thomas, thanks a lot. Bill Portanova, stick around.
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5942244/
Read the complete transcript to Tuesday's showUpdated: 10:56 a.m. ET Sept. 8, 2004Guests: John Clune, Lin Wood, William Portanova, Jim Thomas, Leslie Crocker Snyder, Louise Shelley, Sajjan Gohel
advertisement
DAN ABRAMS, MSNBC ANCHOR, THE ABRAMS REPORT: Coming up, the lawyers for the woman accusing Kobe Bryant of rape join us live. The criminal case against Kobe Bryant crumbled after the allege victim refused to testify. But her civil lawsuit is still on. Is it really going to trial? Have they already reached a deal? We‘ll ask her attorneys.
Plus, Michael Jackson admits to paying over $2 million to another young boy he once befriended. That makes at least two payouts. Does that make this criminal case tougher to defend?
...
Michael Jackson coming up, admits he paid money to another boy who is then not allowed to talk about their relationship. What is word of another payoff do to the current case against Jackson?
Plus Scott Peterson‘s lawyers haven‘t presented their case and the prosecutors are already on guard trying to prove that police looked into all possible leads before accusing him of murder. Why are they trying to justify their prosecution so early in the case?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Michael Jackson‘s back in the headlines responding to a “Dateline” NBC investigation revealing another possible victim. In 1990, Jackson reportedly paid more than $2 million to a 12-year-old boy to keep details of whatever happened between them secret. Jackson is not denying the payout this time. Here‘s what he had to say after Dateline‘s discovery.
Quote, I settled with certain individuals because I was concerned about my family and the media scrutiny that would have ensued if I‘d fought the matter in court. It is unfortunate that some individuals have seen fit to come forward and make a complaint that is completely false. Quite frankly I question the timing and motive of this report.
The boy in this recently discovered settlement, the son of a Neverland ranch employee. Police found out about him while they were investigating the publicized 1993 molestation allegations of another boy. Jackson settled with that accuser for nearly $25 million. Both boys have not cooperated with prosecutors leaving them without a criminal case. My take.
It is hard to accept Jackson‘s repeated statements that there was no wrongdoing and yet still be willing to pay millions to these accusers. This is the way I feel in every case. Joining me now, Jim Thomas, the former Santa Barbara sheriff that lead the investigation into the 1993 molestation allegations against Jackson. He is now a MSNBC news analyst and criminal defense attorney William Portanova. Bill, I mean am I just being too cynical in the fact that I just think when anyone pays millions and millions of dollars to settle cases, that you just don‘t settle cases where you did absolutely nothing wrong.
WILLIAM PORTANOVA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The truth is at this point, yeah. This is salacious gossip. There is no question that a guy that pays that‘s kind of money is worried about something. But here‘s the problem from a prosecution standpoint. Since that was a negotiated settlement, there‘s a good chance that everything about it may be inadmissible in the next proceeding.
ABRAMS: I think that‘s probably the case. But, still, Jim Thomas, I mean as someone who was investigating the ‘93, did you find this case in the context of investigating the ‘93 case?
JIM THOMAS, NBC NEWS ANALYST: Yes, we did Dan. In fact, when we were looking at the first boy, the boy that settled for the $25 million, some of the employees said that we should go talk to a second boy, which we did. We talked to him in 1993 and found that he claimed he had been molested in 1990 and some time after that date was paid in excess of $2 million not to go to court.
ABRAMS: Jim, you know what the Jackson supporters say, right. They‘re saying that Michael Jackson is constantly a target and that he has just tried to settle with these people to avoid these kinds–to get these cases to trial, to make them go away, actually, let me play a quick piece of sound from 1993, Michael Jackson. Let‘s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON: There have been many disgusting statements made recently concerning allegations of improper conduct on my part. These statements about me are totally false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Jim, what to make of that?
THOMAS: Well, you know, I‘ve had my opinion for some time because I‘ve been involved in the case for so long. And with all due respect to Bill, it‘s my understanding that both boys could be called if the judge thought that it could establish a pattern. Now we do know that both of them were put on notice to possibly testify in the grand jury earlier this year. But the D.A chose not to use them for the grand jury process and we‘ll have to wait and see whether he wants to use them at trial or not.
ABRAMS: And Bill, you‘re not suggesting that the D.A. couldn‘t call them. You‘re just saying that they may not be able to discuss certain aspects of the settlement, right?
PORTANOVA: That‘s exactly right but there‘s a bigger problem for the prosecutor here, too. There‘s no doubt that if some attorney engineered those settlements for these boys 10 years ago, one of the conditions of the settlement to get that kind of money was to no doubt include a sworn statement saying that there has never been any physical contact. And I‘m quite certain–
ABRAMS: Really?
PORTANOVA: As part of a negotiated settlement, I‘m quite certain that an attorney would insist on that to protect the client in the future and that may be the biggest problem that the prosecutor has even if he gets that evidence in now.
ABRAMS: Jim, do you know anything about that? Any sworn statements?
THOMAS: I don‘t think so. But nonetheless, I think Bill brings out a pretty good point. When you bring in ‘93, you‘re bringing in old material. I‘m not so certain that the D.A. may not choose just to work on this case. It‘s cleaner. He has tremendous faith in this victim and this family. And it is something that is recent.
ABRAMS: All right. We shall see. Jim Thomas, thanks a lot. Bill Portanova, stick around.
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5942244/