ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trouble in Neverland: Tale of the Tape; Saddam's Shadow Strikes Fear in Iraq; "The Missing" Home Run or Flop?
Aired November 26, 2003 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST (voice-over): What power does Saddam Hussein still wield in Iraq?
Michael Jackson's defense says they have a tape. Could it clear his name?
Believe it or not. The FDA approves clinical tests of, well, a female orgasm machine.
Domestic goddess Nigella Lawson on holiday food interviewed by none other than my mom.
And are there any movies to be thankful for this holiday?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: And good evening. Welcome to 360.
We begin with the latest twist in the Michael Jackson investigation. An audiotape in a which a person believed to be the mother of the alleged victim says Jackson "never acted inappropriately." Now, this tape may raise as many questions as answers.
360 legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom has heard the tape. We're going to talk with her in a moment.
But first, here's the latest from CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the tape, a voice described by a source close to Michael Jackson's defense as that of the alleged victim's mother says Jackson never abused the boy. CNN legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, who listened to the tape, was also told by the defense source that the boy and mother signed an affidavit saying Jackson never abused the boy. Defense attorney Ira Salzman, who has not heard the tape, says it and the alleged affidavit could be damaging to the prosecution's case. IRA SALZMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It depends on what the alleged victim has to say. What the mother has to say isn't terribly determinative one way or the other. But if the young man says nothing happened, he never touched me in no uncertain terms, that's going to be pretty powerful.
BUCKLEY: Jackson's attorneys claim the current allegations against the singer are financially motivated. And while the boy and his family are not suing Michael Jackson right now, court records indicate that they have sued for money before.
Four years ago, they filed this lawsuit against a JC Penney store after loss prevention agents accused the boy, then 8 years old, of shoplifting. Details of the incident were disputed; charges were ultimately dropped. And the family received a settlement of more than $137,000.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And Salzman says it's unlikely, though, that information will be entered into evidence, if, in fact, this case goes to trial against Michael Jackson. As for the tape and the alleged affidavit, however, that is a different matter. Salzman says, if that does make it into court, that could be very damaging to the prosecution and quite helpful to Michael Jackson's defense -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Frank Buckley in Los Angeles. Thanks, Frank.
As I mentioned, 360 legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom listened to the nearly 20-minute recording. She is in San Francisco tonight and joins us there.
Kimberly, good to see you. Now, Kimberly, the defense would like us to believe this tape is a bombshell to the case against Jackson. Is it?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it could very well prove to be very damaging to the prosecution's case. If this tape and the statements contained herein are believed, it could gut the prosecution's case, casting doubt on the credibility of the victim, his mother and the claims that they have made against Michael Jackson.
Keep in mind, in this tape, the whole time the mother and the alleged victim are very effusive in their praise for Michael Jackson, saying that they are blessed to have him as part of their life, that he was a father figure. The mother saying that Jackson treated her son as his own son, as well as her other children.
So nothing ever at all in the tape suggested any kind of inappropriate conduct. And, in fact, they come right out and say just that, that there was nothing untoward or inappropriate that occurred.
COOPER: As far as you know, who was asking the questions in this tape? And is there any level of coercion, at least that you could hear?
NEWSOM: No, it wasn't a lot of questions. It was more just dialogue, talking. The family members -- this one tape with the mother on there and the alleged victim and another younger son. And in this tape, at no time does it appear that this statement is coerced, that there is any kind of duress used or any kind of undue influence being exercised over any of the parties.
In fact, it's quite conversational, and they just talk about how blessed they are to be part of his "family." So I think it's going to be hard for the D.A. to overcome and say that this was the product of duress. What they will have to prove is that this child did not tell his mother the truth and/or that the alleged abuse occurred after this tape was made.
COOPER: We're going to talk about that coming up. Kimberly is going to join us a little bit later on in the broadcast, as well as Lisa Bloom of Court TV. The question, of course, could this be a punishing blow to the prosecution as the defense hopes? Or, are there other more simple explanations?
In particular, tonight, we want to look at when this tape was allegedly made and compare that to when the allegations against Jackson first surfaced. We're going to have that timeline ahead on 360.
.....
And a little later, in defense of Michael Jackson. What is believed to be the mother of his accuser on tape defending the king of pop. Will that have any effect on the case? Lisa Bloom and Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, who has actually heard the tape, weigh in on that.
First, today's "Buzz." Are the media treating Michael Jackson unfairly? Vote now: cnn.com/360. Results at the end of the program.
......
Justice served tonight. The Michael Jackson case and the tale of the tape. The tape we are talking about is the audiotape that a source close to the Jackson defense played for our legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom. You heard from Kimberly earlier about what the tape said, someone believed to be the mother of the alleged victim, describing Jackson as quote a father figure. We wanted to try to place when this tape was made and when the allegations were made against Jackson.
Joining us from New York, Court TV Anchor Lisa Bloom and Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom again from San Francisco. Appreciate both of you joining us.
Kimberly, lets just start of with you. Just to recap what did the mother say about Jackson on this tape?
KIMBERLY GIULFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: Basically it sounds like he is someone she greatly admired, that he was a father figure to her children that he quote, unquote "gave them advice, provided them with a sense of humor and guidance to the point where their biological father was jealous of this relationship." They said god blessed them by bringing them together as a family. And you hear in this tape just the effusiveness in which she speaks about Michael Jackson as somebody that she really admires and looks up to. And that came to this troubled family at a point in their life and their time when they really needed someone. And he basicly filled a void for them that didn't have and they needed him.
COOPER: And Kimberly, as far as we know, this tape was made -- I guess the defense team is alleging this tape was made in February. And it was what made by a private investigator who visited?
NEWSOM: Part of the Jackson team. One of the investigators sat down with the mother and her child and made this tape. And then a month later was the affidavit sign under penalty of perjury. COOPER: All right. Lisa, I want to bring you in here. Let's just go through this timeline of event that we have. February 6th, that documentary airs. Later in February this audiotape allegedly made. March an affidavit is signed by the mother and boy allegedly. Then also in March, the concerned mother contacts an attorney in June, alleged sexual abuse reported to police. Does this tape, I mean, is it a bombshell?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: I don't see how it's a bombshell at all, Anderson. Keep in mind, Michael Jackson is not alleged to have forcibly raped anyone. He's alleged to have sexually abused a child. Now, this is in the context of a relationship. We know the child went to Neverland. We know that his family was close to Jackson. Jackson, reading between the lines of these charges, is alleged to have seduced this boy. Entered into a relationship that some would call a loving relationship. That's what pedophilia is about, loving a child. The fact the family liked Jackson and trusted him at one point doesn't say a lot to me.
COOPER: Kimberly what about that?
NEWSOM: Anderson.
COOPER: Go ahead.
NEWSOM: The tape directly contradicts that. The mother and the alleged victim in this case are saying that Jackson never acted inappropriately towards him whatsoever. Just as a father. That it was an appropriate relations...
BLOOM: But why are they being asked that question, February?
NEWSOM: ... like a father and a son. They are making these statements on their own volition. That's what is so compelling about this tape. Either this alleged abuse incident occurred after this tape was made or someone wasn't telling the truth at the time that this tape was prepared. And that's the trouble the prosecution is going to have to overcome. And, Anderson, in your timeline, it's unclear that she contacted an attorney in March. Reports that I'm getting is that she contacted a civil attorney in June and then subsequently contacted the police to make the charges.
COOPER: There certainly a lot of questions still be answered. The prosecution, though if this tape does even make it to court, if this case even does make it to court, the prosecution could say look, this young man did not tell his mother at the time this tape was made, if in fact the tape was legitimate, and she didn't know and, therefore, they signed these affidavits. If that is, in fact, what they did. There is an explanation for it. It didn't necessarily destroy the prosecution's case.
BLOOM: We don't even know what the circumstances are. I think we in the press have an obligation to be critical and not just swallow whole whatever the defense chooses to leak. I often think the defense tends to leaks things in inverse proportions to the strength of the case at trial. They haven't leaked the tape. They played the tape for Kimberly and perhaps for others. They have not even leaked the entire tape. So, we don't know what the circumstances are. We don't know what's going on with this tape. At this point it's a leak. It is only a leak by Jackson and his massively well-funded PR machine. And I think we have to keep that in mind.
NEWSOM: Well, Anderson, what we do know is that these are very serious charges and this is a question that bothers me as a prosecutor. Why hasn't the D.A Filed the charges in this case?
If he hasn't and these are serious charges, serious allegations and if this alleged victim was in fact molested, these charges should be filed.
BLOOM: Well, he said he was going to file them after Thanksgiving, so, still on his old time frame.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: You know, this 12-year-old boy does not have a multimillion dollar P.R. machine. He doesn't have a high-profile attorney. He's just a boy, a working class child with cancer who doesn't have a team of people selectively leaking things to the press. That's the concern that I have.
COOPER: Kimberly, is there...
NEWSOM: The power and strength of the D.A.'s office, is considerable. Having been a prosecutor.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: The D.A. is not leaking things to the press.
NEWSOM: The D.A. has been leaking quite a lot, through people at Court TV as well.
COOPER: Does the defense believe at all that the prosecution jumped the gun. I mean, is there a sense of confidence among the defense right now?
NEWSOM: There is because they are wondering, if he has the charges to bring, why aren't they being brought forward?
Why all the delay?
We heard the D.A. say he was going to issue this arrest warrant prior to Halloween but there were a lot of trick or treaters in the Santa Barbara area, so he put it off. And this wasn't to jeopardize his album. And then he said we're going to put it off after Thanksgiving. Again, if there is a child molester out there on the loose, then bring the charges and get this case going. Both sides deserve that.
BLOOM: I think the case should be tried at trial, Anderson, and not on these kind of leaks.
COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there.
Lisa Bloom, Court TV.
Kimberly Giulfoyle Newsom, thanks very much.
We mentioned last night the sales figures were due out today on Jackson's album. He're as quick news note on how it has been selling. Jackson's new album "Number Ones" ranked number 13 on the music charts this week, not exactly a thriller. The self-proclaimed king of pop was outsold by -- well, Britney Spears. Her new album, "In the Zone" topped the music charts, landing on the number one spot this week.
That brings us to today's "Buzz." Are the media treating Michael Jackson unfairly?
What do you think?
Vote now, cnn.com/360. Results at the end of the program.
:nav Source: http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/26/acd.00.html
Trouble in Neverland: Tale of the Tape; Saddam's Shadow Strikes Fear in Iraq; "The Missing" Home Run or Flop?
Aired November 26, 2003 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST (voice-over): What power does Saddam Hussein still wield in Iraq?
Michael Jackson's defense says they have a tape. Could it clear his name?
Believe it or not. The FDA approves clinical tests of, well, a female orgasm machine.
Domestic goddess Nigella Lawson on holiday food interviewed by none other than my mom.
And are there any movies to be thankful for this holiday?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
COOPER: And good evening. Welcome to 360.
We begin with the latest twist in the Michael Jackson investigation. An audiotape in a which a person believed to be the mother of the alleged victim says Jackson "never acted inappropriately." Now, this tape may raise as many questions as answers.
360 legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom has heard the tape. We're going to talk with her in a moment.
But first, here's the latest from CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the tape, a voice described by a source close to Michael Jackson's defense as that of the alleged victim's mother says Jackson never abused the boy. CNN legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, who listened to the tape, was also told by the defense source that the boy and mother signed an affidavit saying Jackson never abused the boy. Defense attorney Ira Salzman, who has not heard the tape, says it and the alleged affidavit could be damaging to the prosecution's case. IRA SALZMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It depends on what the alleged victim has to say. What the mother has to say isn't terribly determinative one way or the other. But if the young man says nothing happened, he never touched me in no uncertain terms, that's going to be pretty powerful.
BUCKLEY: Jackson's attorneys claim the current allegations against the singer are financially motivated. And while the boy and his family are not suing Michael Jackson right now, court records indicate that they have sued for money before.
Four years ago, they filed this lawsuit against a JC Penney store after loss prevention agents accused the boy, then 8 years old, of shoplifting. Details of the incident were disputed; charges were ultimately dropped. And the family received a settlement of more than $137,000.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And Salzman says it's unlikely, though, that information will be entered into evidence, if, in fact, this case goes to trial against Michael Jackson. As for the tape and the alleged affidavit, however, that is a different matter. Salzman says, if that does make it into court, that could be very damaging to the prosecution and quite helpful to Michael Jackson's defense -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Frank Buckley in Los Angeles. Thanks, Frank.
As I mentioned, 360 legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom listened to the nearly 20-minute recording. She is in San Francisco tonight and joins us there.
Kimberly, good to see you. Now, Kimberly, the defense would like us to believe this tape is a bombshell to the case against Jackson. Is it?
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think it could very well prove to be very damaging to the prosecution's case. If this tape and the statements contained herein are believed, it could gut the prosecution's case, casting doubt on the credibility of the victim, his mother and the claims that they have made against Michael Jackson.
Keep in mind, in this tape, the whole time the mother and the alleged victim are very effusive in their praise for Michael Jackson, saying that they are blessed to have him as part of their life, that he was a father figure. The mother saying that Jackson treated her son as his own son, as well as her other children.
So nothing ever at all in the tape suggested any kind of inappropriate conduct. And, in fact, they come right out and say just that, that there was nothing untoward or inappropriate that occurred.
COOPER: As far as you know, who was asking the questions in this tape? And is there any level of coercion, at least that you could hear?
NEWSOM: No, it wasn't a lot of questions. It was more just dialogue, talking. The family members -- this one tape with the mother on there and the alleged victim and another younger son. And in this tape, at no time does it appear that this statement is coerced, that there is any kind of duress used or any kind of undue influence being exercised over any of the parties.
In fact, it's quite conversational, and they just talk about how blessed they are to be part of his "family." So I think it's going to be hard for the D.A. to overcome and say that this was the product of duress. What they will have to prove is that this child did not tell his mother the truth and/or that the alleged abuse occurred after this tape was made.
COOPER: We're going to talk about that coming up. Kimberly is going to join us a little bit later on in the broadcast, as well as Lisa Bloom of Court TV. The question, of course, could this be a punishing blow to the prosecution as the defense hopes? Or, are there other more simple explanations?
In particular, tonight, we want to look at when this tape was allegedly made and compare that to when the allegations against Jackson first surfaced. We're going to have that timeline ahead on 360.
.....
And a little later, in defense of Michael Jackson. What is believed to be the mother of his accuser on tape defending the king of pop. Will that have any effect on the case? Lisa Bloom and Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom, who has actually heard the tape, weigh in on that.
First, today's "Buzz." Are the media treating Michael Jackson unfairly? Vote now: cnn.com/360. Results at the end of the program.
......
Justice served tonight. The Michael Jackson case and the tale of the tape. The tape we are talking about is the audiotape that a source close to the Jackson defense played for our legal analyst Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom. You heard from Kimberly earlier about what the tape said, someone believed to be the mother of the alleged victim, describing Jackson as quote a father figure. We wanted to try to place when this tape was made and when the allegations were made against Jackson.
Joining us from New York, Court TV Anchor Lisa Bloom and Kimberly Guilfoyle Newsom again from San Francisco. Appreciate both of you joining us.
Kimberly, lets just start of with you. Just to recap what did the mother say about Jackson on this tape?
KIMBERLY GIULFOYLE NEWSOM, 360 LEGAL ANALYST: Basically it sounds like he is someone she greatly admired, that he was a father figure to her children that he quote, unquote "gave them advice, provided them with a sense of humor and guidance to the point where their biological father was jealous of this relationship." They said god blessed them by bringing them together as a family. And you hear in this tape just the effusiveness in which she speaks about Michael Jackson as somebody that she really admires and looks up to. And that came to this troubled family at a point in their life and their time when they really needed someone. And he basicly filled a void for them that didn't have and they needed him.
COOPER: And Kimberly, as far as we know, this tape was made -- I guess the defense team is alleging this tape was made in February. And it was what made by a private investigator who visited?
NEWSOM: Part of the Jackson team. One of the investigators sat down with the mother and her child and made this tape. And then a month later was the affidavit sign under penalty of perjury. COOPER: All right. Lisa, I want to bring you in here. Let's just go through this timeline of event that we have. February 6th, that documentary airs. Later in February this audiotape allegedly made. March an affidavit is signed by the mother and boy allegedly. Then also in March, the concerned mother contacts an attorney in June, alleged sexual abuse reported to police. Does this tape, I mean, is it a bombshell?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: I don't see how it's a bombshell at all, Anderson. Keep in mind, Michael Jackson is not alleged to have forcibly raped anyone. He's alleged to have sexually abused a child. Now, this is in the context of a relationship. We know the child went to Neverland. We know that his family was close to Jackson. Jackson, reading between the lines of these charges, is alleged to have seduced this boy. Entered into a relationship that some would call a loving relationship. That's what pedophilia is about, loving a child. The fact the family liked Jackson and trusted him at one point doesn't say a lot to me.
COOPER: Kimberly what about that?
NEWSOM: Anderson.
COOPER: Go ahead.
NEWSOM: The tape directly contradicts that. The mother and the alleged victim in this case are saying that Jackson never acted inappropriately towards him whatsoever. Just as a father. That it was an appropriate relations...
BLOOM: But why are they being asked that question, February?
NEWSOM: ... like a father and a son. They are making these statements on their own volition. That's what is so compelling about this tape. Either this alleged abuse incident occurred after this tape was made or someone wasn't telling the truth at the time that this tape was prepared. And that's the trouble the prosecution is going to have to overcome. And, Anderson, in your timeline, it's unclear that she contacted an attorney in March. Reports that I'm getting is that she contacted a civil attorney in June and then subsequently contacted the police to make the charges.
COOPER: There certainly a lot of questions still be answered. The prosecution, though if this tape does even make it to court, if this case even does make it to court, the prosecution could say look, this young man did not tell his mother at the time this tape was made, if in fact the tape was legitimate, and she didn't know and, therefore, they signed these affidavits. If that is, in fact, what they did. There is an explanation for it. It didn't necessarily destroy the prosecution's case.
BLOOM: We don't even know what the circumstances are. I think we in the press have an obligation to be critical and not just swallow whole whatever the defense chooses to leak. I often think the defense tends to leaks things in inverse proportions to the strength of the case at trial. They haven't leaked the tape. They played the tape for Kimberly and perhaps for others. They have not even leaked the entire tape. So, we don't know what the circumstances are. We don't know what's going on with this tape. At this point it's a leak. It is only a leak by Jackson and his massively well-funded PR machine. And I think we have to keep that in mind.
NEWSOM: Well, Anderson, what we do know is that these are very serious charges and this is a question that bothers me as a prosecutor. Why hasn't the D.A Filed the charges in this case?
If he hasn't and these are serious charges, serious allegations and if this alleged victim was in fact molested, these charges should be filed.
BLOOM: Well, he said he was going to file them after Thanksgiving, so, still on his old time frame.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: You know, this 12-year-old boy does not have a multimillion dollar P.R. machine. He doesn't have a high-profile attorney. He's just a boy, a working class child with cancer who doesn't have a team of people selectively leaking things to the press. That's the concern that I have.
COOPER: Kimberly, is there...
NEWSOM: The power and strength of the D.A.'s office, is considerable. Having been a prosecutor.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: The D.A. is not leaking things to the press.
NEWSOM: The D.A. has been leaking quite a lot, through people at Court TV as well.
COOPER: Does the defense believe at all that the prosecution jumped the gun. I mean, is there a sense of confidence among the defense right now?
NEWSOM: There is because they are wondering, if he has the charges to bring, why aren't they being brought forward?
Why all the delay?
We heard the D.A. say he was going to issue this arrest warrant prior to Halloween but there were a lot of trick or treaters in the Santa Barbara area, so he put it off. And this wasn't to jeopardize his album. And then he said we're going to put it off after Thanksgiving. Again, if there is a child molester out there on the loose, then bring the charges and get this case going. Both sides deserve that.
BLOOM: I think the case should be tried at trial, Anderson, and not on these kind of leaks.
COOPER: We're going to have to leave it there.
Lisa Bloom, Court TV.
Kimberly Giulfoyle Newsom, thanks very much.
We mentioned last night the sales figures were due out today on Jackson's album. He're as quick news note on how it has been selling. Jackson's new album "Number Ones" ranked number 13 on the music charts this week, not exactly a thriller. The self-proclaimed king of pop was outsold by -- well, Britney Spears. Her new album, "In the Zone" topped the music charts, landing on the number one spot this week.
That brings us to today's "Buzz." Are the media treating Michael Jackson unfairly?
What do you think?
Vote now, cnn.com/360. Results at the end of the program.
:nav Source: http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/26/acd.00.html