Transcript provided by enrico75 at MJJF
Show: Court TV Special Chat
Date: June 22 2005
COURT TV HOST We're very pleased to have Jackson juror Melissa Herard joining us now. Juror #8. Welcome, Melissa Herard, thanks for being our guest online today.
QUESTION sfboys: what was it like being in the courtroom with michael for that long? was it odd to be in the presence of a superstar.
MELISSA HERARD At first it was a little intimidating. But after sitting there for all those months, he just was another person. I mean, he's human, like the rest of us. You know, I am impressed at how he sat there throughtout the whole trial. I could see him the whole time, he didn't do any of what people are saying, giving people the peace sign -- he didn't do any of that. He's just a regular person. He'd laught when we'd laugh, that broke some of the tension, and I think the judge realized that.
QUESTION CindyRilla: Melisa, do you find the 1109 evidence and witnesses were weak as well?
MELISSA HERARD not just weak. We were instructed specifically to look at the 1108 not for the truth of the matter. We were to look at that as wheter it established a pattern with MJ, as I called him in my notebooks, and that right there -- there was no pattern. We could not estabilish a pattern. This case was totally different from the 1993 accusations, so there was there that promoted a pattern.
QUESTION at: Do you think that it is fair to use the 1108 evidence in a current case?
MELISSA HERARD Well, I'm not to second guess Judge Melville. He did what he had to do as a judge. To me, do I think it was fair -- it made me personally ask more questions in my own mind. And I think that helped me along when we were in the deliberations. All of that -- there was more evidence from 1993 that there was this time, the 2003 case.
QUESTION LuvU2: What was it like seeing MJ in his Pajama Pants?
MELISSA HERARD No big deal for me -- my children have worn their PJs to school. That's a thing that they do around here. I wish I could wear my jammies.
QUESTION lookingglass72: I would like to know if the books and the mags layed a part in their decision or how they viewed them.
MELISSA HERARDIt was testimony that he received a lot of things from people from around the world, from fans, and he's a packrat, he keeps everything, you could see it in the pictures and stuff they showed as evidence from his room and all the stuff that's kept there. None of those items are illegal to have, and he wasn't charged with showing the accusers pornography. And out of 21,000 pages of fingerprints, not one of them could put them together in the same room, because there was testimony that the accuser was caught looked at the magazines without Michael Jackson being present. Out of all of these pages, they only found fingerprints on several, so who's to say that he even looked at most of that stuff.
QUESTION JurySupporter: What did you think of the Macaulay Culkin testimony?
MELISSA HERARD I think he was great -- he was relaxed, he was forward, he didn't hesitate on any of his answers. I truly believed him. The person who testified that he saw Jackson do something with Macauley -- think about it -- if I saw somebody doing something like that, I would definitely turn them in. But these people were so nervous about losing their jobs, so they didn't -- but they only made minimum wage, c'mon. And all of them from 1993 ended up suiing Michael Jackson, and he's the one who ended up winning the cases. And he still hasn't gone after them for the million dollars he was awarded.
QUESTION Genaro: Why wasn't the boy deemed credible?
MELISSA HERARD Well, it wasn't that he wasn't deemed credible, it was just that there were too many inconsistences in his story. It just didn't fit into that whole picture.
QUESTION JurySupporter: Now that you have access to the media, are you surprised by any of it?
MELISSA HERARDOh, definitely. I couldn't imagine having them follow you and stick microphones in your face -- I couldn't live with that every day.
QUESTION nature: Has the after-verdict attention from the world been difficult for you?
MELISSA HERARD I left my family for two days and flews to New York, and it's still continuing on. I'll be on Larry King tomorrow night, and hopefully after that, it will all die down, because I'm getting ready to move and it would be nice to just leave it all behind.
QUESTION justice4all05: How has the community received you and other jurors since your verdict?
MELISSA HERARDIt's great -- because the people that I know wanted to know how everything went, and they totally believe in me -- they know I was there and they totally trust me to do the right thing. I've had strangers come up to me and thank me, for doing such a fine job -- and I didn't even know them. I haven't had one persone come up to me and be negative to me.
QUESTION JurySupporter: Melissa, great job! Did you at any point, think there would be guilty verdicts and if so, on what charges?
MELISSA HERARD There were some trying times in there, but we all had to remember that in this country, you're innocent until proven guilty. But we went through all the evidence and came to a unanimous conclusion that he wasn't guilty.
QUESTION Athena: Do you believe it possible that Jason Francia's admission was coerced by police?
MELISSA HERARD I don't know what to say on that -- it was very emotional when he was testifying. It just didn't fit in -- and again, as far as his testimony was concerned, we were not to look at it to consider the truth of the matter, just a pattern -- and the pattern just wasn't there.
QUESTION nature: Melissa: did your knowledge of sexual abuse give you insight into the young accuser's credibility?
MELISSA HERARD No, I can't say that the past experiences that I had had anything to do with it because mine had to do with girls not boys, so there could be a difference about the way they come forward. His testimony just was not consistent.
QUESTION JERRY: Hi Melissa, I believe that the jury that you sat on mirrored the OJ Simpson jury. The Simpson jury made the whole trial about Furhman and the jury you sat on made the whole trila about the kids mother. I thought that was very unfair of the jury.
MELISSA HERARD First off, just because she was aggressive in her testimony does not mean that it blew the whole case. We didn't put it like that. It wasn't just the mother's testimony -- that's why we were there so long. We rewieved testimonty, videos, and we all talked it out because we all had our own facts in our notes. No, it wasn't just based on the mother. I think that people need to understand that the mother had nothing to do with the molestation part. I feel sorry for the family. I don't dislike them, because I don't know them, but in this case, there was nothing found, so we had to go on that.
QUESTION Bubblegum: Melissa...why no conviction on the alcohol? At least?
MELISSA HERARD Those charges, since we found MJ not guilty on the administering of an intoxicating agent for a felony, we were given a choice of finding him guilty or not guilty on a misdemeanor charge. And not once was there testimony throughout the whole trial that MJ either gave them alcohol. There Was testimony by some of the security personnel that some of the boys were caught with alcohol. And I feel there is a lot of reasonable doubt there -- so we had to do what we had to do.
QUESTION Mystie: Hi Melissa: What was the tension level like in the deliberation room?
MELISSA HERARD I don't know how to put it. We all had gotten very close and when we were in the deliberating room, at some times it was really tense but when we had our ten minutes breaks, we could still get up, hug each other, and go outside and have our breaks, eat lunch together, and get back to work.
QUESTION novelidea: To Melissa: How do you feel when interviewers challenge you rahter harshly about your decision because they didn't agree with it?
MELISSA HERARD That's okay, because this is America, and everybody can believe what they want. It doesn't affect me, because I believe we did the right thing on what we were instructed to do, and I stand by that. They weren't in there.
QUESTION treebabi: are you writing a book?
MELISSA HERARD LOL. You know, we're instructed that we're not allowed to for 90 days, so we'll just have to wait and see.
QUESTION JurySupporter: How did the jury react to the personalities of the lawyers? Did you find some of them to be more effective than others?
MELISSA HERARD I personally believed that both sides did a phenomenal job. Some lawyers were more interesting than others, but they both did a great job, especially the prosecution, considering who they had to work with. I could see them struggling some.
QUESTION at: Has you life changed?
MELISSA HERARD Yeah. I think it has. Sitting there for those months has actually made me try not to judge people for what they appear like, but to really stop and listen. My family has always been important, but it's made me realize it even more. I'm moving away, but my oldest three children will be stayin in the area.
QUESTION JUSTICE: Hi Melissa. Did you ever see the MJ fans and could you hear them outside while you were in the jury room?
MELISSA HERARD You could hear just a teeny bit. We couldn't hear any words spoken. When we took our breaks we could hear them outside, and we saw them in the morning, when we came in - the bikini lady - but it didn't affect anything.
QUESTION janena: I would like to know how you felt about the testimony of Debbie Rowe, she was called by the pros, but ended up making favorable statements for the defence, were you surprised about that?
MELISSA HERARDNot really. From looking at the way she looked at Michael. I wouldn't expect her to tear him down. He is the father of her children too.
QUESTION Ty: Hi. Did you feel the press was really hard on MJ?
MELISSA HERARD As I'm looking back on some of the things that were going on at the time, because we weren't allowed to look at it during the trial, yes, I asked myself were they in the same courtroom as I was. What's funny, it's more like thay had their own personal opinion and they left out a lot of the stuff that would show the other side, because the more sensationalized it is, the more papers they would sell. So yes, they were biased, most of them.
QUESTION justice4all05: Hi Melissa, can you tell us if any of the jurors admitted to watching Jay Leno during the trial? It was reported that the judge made a joke the next day and all of the jurors laughed like they knew he was talking about.
MELISSA HERARD You know, i didn't watch Jay Leno, so when they started laughing, I started laughing.
QUESTION JurySupporter: What were the results of the first vote taken by the jury?
MELISSA HERARD It depended on what count. We had three options, we did guilty, not guilty, or question. It was different on different charges. We had to have a place to start. And then we just went on from there.
QUESTION After: Melissa, did you think it was appropriate for Cococoz to attend that Jackson party? And did you go?
MELISSA HERARD It wasn't me. But yes, there's no crime in that. They gave out bracelets to anyone who went to the gate. I'd like to ask you a question: I want to know, if people are so upset about the juror going to the party that Michael Jackson did not put on, but his family put on: would they be upset that I have Michael Jackson CDs or go buy a new one? Because when I was questioned to be put on this jury, I let them know that I grew up in Detroit, with Michael Jackson's music, so am I bad for listening to his music? They need to understand that Michael Jackson and his music are totally separate from what was happening in that courtroom.
QUESTION gcf1172: Did the jury believe that mj was infact a child molester that the prosecution just couldn't prove it in this case?
QUESTION Mystie: Three jurors were mentioned as believing Michael Jackson had molested before. Were you one of them?
MELISSA HERARD No, I wasn't one of them. i think everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
QUESTION Amber: At any time during the trial, did you ever find yourself wondering why the DA forwarded this legal action?
MELISSA HERARD Well, I think that I really haven't had time to think about that one, I'll have to get back to you on that one!
QUESTION Blizzard: What did you think when the Mother said she saw Jackson lick her son's head and did nothing about it?
MELISSA HERARD At that time, when she testified to that, she seemed so dramatic, and it was like, over the top, and being a mother myself, if I saw someone licking my child's head, I wouldn't just keep it in my head, I would go over and do something about it. Her excuse was that she just thought she was seeing things -- does she see a lot of things? It was just too much over the top. It would be strange that everybody was sleeping on a private jet - I flew on a private jet (after the case) and we had two stewards, and they didn't sit down the whole time. And they had twice as many people on the plane, so I don't see how they could have been sitting down at all. It just didn't add up.
QUESTION sfboys: Have you read about anything that was kept from the jury durign the case? Would anything have changed the way you feel about the outcome? Or does it just solidify your decision.
MELISSA HERARD Actually, a lot of things I head would have solidified our action -- but I probably haven't heard everything.
COURT TV HOST Any closing thoughts?
MELISSA HERARD I'd just like to thank everybody to take the time to listen to the TRUE story. Our American justice system does worlk, and people have to remember that people are innocent until proven guilty BEYOND a reasonable doubt. Thank you.
COURT TV HOST Thank you!
Show: Court TV Special Chat
Date: June 22 2005
COURT TV HOST We're very pleased to have Jackson juror Melissa Herard joining us now. Juror #8. Welcome, Melissa Herard, thanks for being our guest online today.
QUESTION sfboys: what was it like being in the courtroom with michael for that long? was it odd to be in the presence of a superstar.
MELISSA HERARD At first it was a little intimidating. But after sitting there for all those months, he just was another person. I mean, he's human, like the rest of us. You know, I am impressed at how he sat there throughtout the whole trial. I could see him the whole time, he didn't do any of what people are saying, giving people the peace sign -- he didn't do any of that. He's just a regular person. He'd laught when we'd laugh, that broke some of the tension, and I think the judge realized that.
QUESTION CindyRilla: Melisa, do you find the 1109 evidence and witnesses were weak as well?
MELISSA HERARD not just weak. We were instructed specifically to look at the 1108 not for the truth of the matter. We were to look at that as wheter it established a pattern with MJ, as I called him in my notebooks, and that right there -- there was no pattern. We could not estabilish a pattern. This case was totally different from the 1993 accusations, so there was there that promoted a pattern.
QUESTION at: Do you think that it is fair to use the 1108 evidence in a current case?
MELISSA HERARD Well, I'm not to second guess Judge Melville. He did what he had to do as a judge. To me, do I think it was fair -- it made me personally ask more questions in my own mind. And I think that helped me along when we were in the deliberations. All of that -- there was more evidence from 1993 that there was this time, the 2003 case.
QUESTION LuvU2: What was it like seeing MJ in his Pajama Pants?
MELISSA HERARD No big deal for me -- my children have worn their PJs to school. That's a thing that they do around here. I wish I could wear my jammies.
QUESTION lookingglass72: I would like to know if the books and the mags layed a part in their decision or how they viewed them.
MELISSA HERARDIt was testimony that he received a lot of things from people from around the world, from fans, and he's a packrat, he keeps everything, you could see it in the pictures and stuff they showed as evidence from his room and all the stuff that's kept there. None of those items are illegal to have, and he wasn't charged with showing the accusers pornography. And out of 21,000 pages of fingerprints, not one of them could put them together in the same room, because there was testimony that the accuser was caught looked at the magazines without Michael Jackson being present. Out of all of these pages, they only found fingerprints on several, so who's to say that he even looked at most of that stuff.
QUESTION JurySupporter: What did you think of the Macaulay Culkin testimony?
MELISSA HERARD I think he was great -- he was relaxed, he was forward, he didn't hesitate on any of his answers. I truly believed him. The person who testified that he saw Jackson do something with Macauley -- think about it -- if I saw somebody doing something like that, I would definitely turn them in. But these people were so nervous about losing their jobs, so they didn't -- but they only made minimum wage, c'mon. And all of them from 1993 ended up suiing Michael Jackson, and he's the one who ended up winning the cases. And he still hasn't gone after them for the million dollars he was awarded.
QUESTION Genaro: Why wasn't the boy deemed credible?
MELISSA HERARD Well, it wasn't that he wasn't deemed credible, it was just that there were too many inconsistences in his story. It just didn't fit into that whole picture.
QUESTION JurySupporter: Now that you have access to the media, are you surprised by any of it?
MELISSA HERARDOh, definitely. I couldn't imagine having them follow you and stick microphones in your face -- I couldn't live with that every day.
QUESTION nature: Has the after-verdict attention from the world been difficult for you?
MELISSA HERARD I left my family for two days and flews to New York, and it's still continuing on. I'll be on Larry King tomorrow night, and hopefully after that, it will all die down, because I'm getting ready to move and it would be nice to just leave it all behind.
QUESTION justice4all05: How has the community received you and other jurors since your verdict?
MELISSA HERARDIt's great -- because the people that I know wanted to know how everything went, and they totally believe in me -- they know I was there and they totally trust me to do the right thing. I've had strangers come up to me and thank me, for doing such a fine job -- and I didn't even know them. I haven't had one persone come up to me and be negative to me.
QUESTION JurySupporter: Melissa, great job! Did you at any point, think there would be guilty verdicts and if so, on what charges?
MELISSA HERARD There were some trying times in there, but we all had to remember that in this country, you're innocent until proven guilty. But we went through all the evidence and came to a unanimous conclusion that he wasn't guilty.
QUESTION Athena: Do you believe it possible that Jason Francia's admission was coerced by police?
MELISSA HERARD I don't know what to say on that -- it was very emotional when he was testifying. It just didn't fit in -- and again, as far as his testimony was concerned, we were not to look at it to consider the truth of the matter, just a pattern -- and the pattern just wasn't there.
QUESTION nature: Melissa: did your knowledge of sexual abuse give you insight into the young accuser's credibility?
MELISSA HERARD No, I can't say that the past experiences that I had had anything to do with it because mine had to do with girls not boys, so there could be a difference about the way they come forward. His testimony just was not consistent.
QUESTION JERRY: Hi Melissa, I believe that the jury that you sat on mirrored the OJ Simpson jury. The Simpson jury made the whole trial about Furhman and the jury you sat on made the whole trila about the kids mother. I thought that was very unfair of the jury.
MELISSA HERARD First off, just because she was aggressive in her testimony does not mean that it blew the whole case. We didn't put it like that. It wasn't just the mother's testimony -- that's why we were there so long. We rewieved testimonty, videos, and we all talked it out because we all had our own facts in our notes. No, it wasn't just based on the mother. I think that people need to understand that the mother had nothing to do with the molestation part. I feel sorry for the family. I don't dislike them, because I don't know them, but in this case, there was nothing found, so we had to go on that.
QUESTION Bubblegum: Melissa...why no conviction on the alcohol? At least?
MELISSA HERARD Those charges, since we found MJ not guilty on the administering of an intoxicating agent for a felony, we were given a choice of finding him guilty or not guilty on a misdemeanor charge. And not once was there testimony throughout the whole trial that MJ either gave them alcohol. There Was testimony by some of the security personnel that some of the boys were caught with alcohol. And I feel there is a lot of reasonable doubt there -- so we had to do what we had to do.
QUESTION Mystie: Hi Melissa: What was the tension level like in the deliberation room?
MELISSA HERARD I don't know how to put it. We all had gotten very close and when we were in the deliberating room, at some times it was really tense but when we had our ten minutes breaks, we could still get up, hug each other, and go outside and have our breaks, eat lunch together, and get back to work.
QUESTION novelidea: To Melissa: How do you feel when interviewers challenge you rahter harshly about your decision because they didn't agree with it?
MELISSA HERARD That's okay, because this is America, and everybody can believe what they want. It doesn't affect me, because I believe we did the right thing on what we were instructed to do, and I stand by that. They weren't in there.
QUESTION treebabi: are you writing a book?
MELISSA HERARD LOL. You know, we're instructed that we're not allowed to for 90 days, so we'll just have to wait and see.
QUESTION JurySupporter: How did the jury react to the personalities of the lawyers? Did you find some of them to be more effective than others?
MELISSA HERARD I personally believed that both sides did a phenomenal job. Some lawyers were more interesting than others, but they both did a great job, especially the prosecution, considering who they had to work with. I could see them struggling some.
QUESTION at: Has you life changed?
MELISSA HERARD Yeah. I think it has. Sitting there for those months has actually made me try not to judge people for what they appear like, but to really stop and listen. My family has always been important, but it's made me realize it even more. I'm moving away, but my oldest three children will be stayin in the area.
QUESTION JUSTICE: Hi Melissa. Did you ever see the MJ fans and could you hear them outside while you were in the jury room?
MELISSA HERARD You could hear just a teeny bit. We couldn't hear any words spoken. When we took our breaks we could hear them outside, and we saw them in the morning, when we came in - the bikini lady - but it didn't affect anything.
QUESTION janena: I would like to know how you felt about the testimony of Debbie Rowe, she was called by the pros, but ended up making favorable statements for the defence, were you surprised about that?
MELISSA HERARDNot really. From looking at the way she looked at Michael. I wouldn't expect her to tear him down. He is the father of her children too.
QUESTION Ty: Hi. Did you feel the press was really hard on MJ?
MELISSA HERARD As I'm looking back on some of the things that were going on at the time, because we weren't allowed to look at it during the trial, yes, I asked myself were they in the same courtroom as I was. What's funny, it's more like thay had their own personal opinion and they left out a lot of the stuff that would show the other side, because the more sensationalized it is, the more papers they would sell. So yes, they were biased, most of them.
QUESTION justice4all05: Hi Melissa, can you tell us if any of the jurors admitted to watching Jay Leno during the trial? It was reported that the judge made a joke the next day and all of the jurors laughed like they knew he was talking about.
MELISSA HERARD You know, i didn't watch Jay Leno, so when they started laughing, I started laughing.
QUESTION JurySupporter: What were the results of the first vote taken by the jury?
MELISSA HERARD It depended on what count. We had three options, we did guilty, not guilty, or question. It was different on different charges. We had to have a place to start. And then we just went on from there.
QUESTION After: Melissa, did you think it was appropriate for Cococoz to attend that Jackson party? And did you go?
MELISSA HERARD It wasn't me. But yes, there's no crime in that. They gave out bracelets to anyone who went to the gate. I'd like to ask you a question: I want to know, if people are so upset about the juror going to the party that Michael Jackson did not put on, but his family put on: would they be upset that I have Michael Jackson CDs or go buy a new one? Because when I was questioned to be put on this jury, I let them know that I grew up in Detroit, with Michael Jackson's music, so am I bad for listening to his music? They need to understand that Michael Jackson and his music are totally separate from what was happening in that courtroom.
QUESTION gcf1172: Did the jury believe that mj was infact a child molester that the prosecution just couldn't prove it in this case?
QUESTION Mystie: Three jurors were mentioned as believing Michael Jackson had molested before. Were you one of them?
MELISSA HERARD No, I wasn't one of them. i think everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
QUESTION Amber: At any time during the trial, did you ever find yourself wondering why the DA forwarded this legal action?
MELISSA HERARD Well, I think that I really haven't had time to think about that one, I'll have to get back to you on that one!
QUESTION Blizzard: What did you think when the Mother said she saw Jackson lick her son's head and did nothing about it?
MELISSA HERARD At that time, when she testified to that, she seemed so dramatic, and it was like, over the top, and being a mother myself, if I saw someone licking my child's head, I wouldn't just keep it in my head, I would go over and do something about it. Her excuse was that she just thought she was seeing things -- does she see a lot of things? It was just too much over the top. It would be strange that everybody was sleeping on a private jet - I flew on a private jet (after the case) and we had two stewards, and they didn't sit down the whole time. And they had twice as many people on the plane, so I don't see how they could have been sitting down at all. It just didn't add up.
QUESTION sfboys: Have you read about anything that was kept from the jury durign the case? Would anything have changed the way you feel about the outcome? Or does it just solidify your decision.
MELISSA HERARD Actually, a lot of things I head would have solidified our action -- but I probably haven't heard everything.
COURT TV HOST Any closing thoughts?
MELISSA HERARD I'd just like to thank everybody to take the time to listen to the TRUE story. Our American justice system does worlk, and people have to remember that people are innocent until proven guilty BEYOND a reasonable doubt. Thank you.
COURT TV HOST Thank you!