'Scarborough Country' for Dec. 30 2003
Read the complete transcript to Tuesday's showUpdated: 12:20 p.m. ET Dec. 31, 2003Guest: Jesse Lee Peterson, Lynn Snowden Picket, Michael Musto, Geraldine Hughes, Jermaine Jackson
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight: a Michael Jackson exclusive.
Jermaine Jackson is here to talk about the case against his little brother.
You‘re about to enter SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. No passport required, no presumption of guilt allowed.
This week, Michael Jackson talked about the first time about the charges against him. Shortly after that, his spokesman quit. Is there dissension in the Jackson camp? We are going to get the inside story from his brother Jermaine.
And it‘s that time of year again, a time to take a look back at the defining moments of 2003. SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY‘s top 10 stories of the year from flyover space, from Rush Limbaugh to the liberation of Iraq, including the stories that the media elite ignored.
Plus, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY‘s favorite moments caught on tape.
In the case of Michael Jackson, Americans are once again being reminded that, in our country, a man is still innocent until proven guilty. It is time for tonight‘s “Real Deal.”
Celebrity justice is sounding more like an oxymoron every day, when superstars like Michael, Kobe or Rush tried in the tabloids well before the first jury member is chosen. It‘s easy to forget that all defendants, all defendants, are to be considered innocent until our government proves them to be guilty.
But following the Michael Jackson case, it has shown us that there are perils of predicting a legal outcome before the case is tried before a jury. Just a month ago, most talking heads practically put Jackson behind bars before the first charge had even been filed against him. But now, but now, following Sunday‘s “60 Minutes” episode, many are predicting that Michael is going to walk.
Regardless of how the wind blows next week, we all need to remember that Michael Jackson is, first and foremost, an American citizen. And as an American citizen, he is entitled to the same constitutional rights that you and I enjoy. Above all, that means a right to a fair trial. And for that to happen, this case, just like Kobe‘s case, just like Rush‘s case, needs to be tried in the courtroom and not on the pages of tabloid magazines. And that is tonight‘s “Real Deal.”
I‘m joined now by Michael Jackson‘s brother Jermaine Jackson.
Jermaine, thank you so much for being with us tonight in SCARBOROUGH
COUNTRY.
And all of America is talking about Michael‘s “60 Minutes” interview this past week. How is Michael feeling? How are you feeling? How are your parents feeling about his performance on “60 Minutes”?
JERMAINE JACKSON, BROTHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Well, his performance was from his heart. He was speaking from his heart. He was telling the truth and very sincere. We were very happy. And we support him 1,000 percent. And we feel that he is very innocent of all of this.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, does Michael believe that the reaction of America to the interview has turned the case in his favor and turned the tide away from the state prosecutor and into his direction?
JACKSON: Well, I really don‘t know what he feels in his heart.
But I do know, after seeing the interview anybody, any American citizen can see that he is very sincere, very honest, and that he is telling the truth. But you get people who want to just not believe it. Like, someone mentioned–he had mentioned that he can‘t move his arm across this way and they said, well, he can scratch his head. That is a different movement.
But, at the same time, he told you how he was treated. Why would he lie? But the American people, or just the media, someone, just don‘t want to believe that, that he was treated that way.
SCARBOROUGH: What‘s been your family‘s reaction to the interview, especially your parents? I know this has to be–so many people forget that celebrities are human beings first and they have mothers and fathers and family members. And this is a terrible ordeal, regardless of whether you are a superstar or a regular guy.
How are your parents and the family enduring this terrible ordeal?
JACKSON: Well, my family is very strong and we‘re very unified. And we‘re supporting Michael 1,000 percent.
And we are disappointed in the system in which the media has handled this whole thing. They have tried to convict my brother off of false allegations that has no bit of–it doesn‘t support the truth. But, at the same time, we have our children pledging allegiance to the flag. And I do believe it says one nation under God and liberty and justice for all. And I feel, if this is justice, then we really need to rewrite the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag and also we need to take the Statue of Liberty and give it back to France, because this is not justice.
And the way the media has acted, they are not representative of the dignity and the integrity that the Statue of Liberty represents, in no way.
SCARBOROUGH: Jermaine, give us some specific instances. Who do you believe has been unjust towards your brother? And what media outlets do you believe have treated him unfairly?
JACKSON: Well, when you look at–they never talk about what a wonderful person he is.
They never talk about the–that he is the biggest superstar on planet Earth. But then, when Saddam was captured, that made the front cover one day. And Michael was back on the tabloids, in the headlines, not of his humanitarian efforts, but from false allegations. And this is just not fair. It is just not right.
And then you have people who don‘t know him, from the Gloria Allreds and the Diane Dimonds, who, when they speak of him, you can see their face gets all twisted up. And they don‘t even know him. How would they have so much hatred towards him? This is nothing but jealousy. And we all know what jealousy is all about. There‘s no limits how far they would stoop and go to the pits of stupidity and ignorance. It‘s just stupid.
But yet, they are reporting to millions out there stupidity and ignorance. And that is what disturbs me the most. And it just bothers my whole family.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, your brother told “60 Minutes” the following: “The police manhandled me very roughly. My shoulder is dislocated, literally.”
But, Jermaine, as you alluded to earlier, a lot of people are pointing to the video of him waving and giving the peace sign after being released from police custody. How is Michael and how are his attorneys explaining the discrepancy between what he told “60 Minutes” and, of course, these images of him waving that you have seen several times over the past few days?
JACKSON: Well, you have seen the bruises.
And knowing my brother and knowing from being on stage, if you are hurting, you still have to go on. His fans were there and he didn‘t want them to know that he was hurting. And I mentioned earlier, when he reached across, he couldn‘t reach any further than this. But some commentator mentioned, well, he didn‘t have a problem scratching his head. Can‘t you see the scratches on his arm and the bruises? Why would he lie about that?
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: What about the shoulder–I‘m sorry–where he said he had a separated shoulder and couldn‘t lift his arms up over his shoulders? Does he still have–has he been treated medically for his separated shoulder?
JACKSON: I‘m pretty sure he has.
But, from my understanding and knowing Michael, he is very fragile. And for someone to willingly turn themselves in and for them to handcuff him, that was totally wrong. And then, from my understanding, the bail set for the state of California is only $65,000. And to put a $3 million bail on him and, at the same time, Michael was cleared of four different police agencies, from the L.A., to the sheriff‘s department, to Santa Barbara as well.
And they all cleared him. And they interviewed at least 400 people and found nothing. But this goes on and on and on. It‘s crazy.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, you‘ve obviously heard Michael talk about how difficult it‘s been for him to be raised in the Jackson family, that he never had a childhood.
Talk a little bit about that and talk about how tough it was growing up a Jackson, growing up a superstar from a very early age.
JACKSON: Well, many people do not know our lives as young children. They knew us as the Jackson Five. But there were many years before the Jackson Five days of being around the house in Gary, Indiana, the house a size of a two-car garage, working very hard, shoveling walks during the winter time.
And we all didn‘t get that much of an other childhood, because we were always rehearsing and getting ready for shows and things. So now we relive our childhood through our children and through their friends. And we are always around children all the time.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, and, tell me, why did–I had somebody ask me this today when they heard you were going to be on the show tonight. They said, I wonder, why did Michael turn out so differently from Jermaine and his other brothers? Because, obviously, Michael is a character all unto himself.
He doesn‘t look like you. He doesn‘t talk like you, doesn‘t walk like you, doesn‘t act like you. What was the difference between Michael and you and your other brothers?
JACKSON: There is no difference from Michael.
Michael has a skin disorder called vitiligo. And it‘s discoloration of the skin. We all know that. They know that. And, at the same time, for someone to even look at him differently, then they want him to be different. Michael is my brother. I‘m his brother. And he is no different from me or anybody else in our family.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, you know, Michael also mentioned–talking about skin color and race, Michael earlier had talked about how race played a factor in his last solo album not doing as well.
And on “60 Minutes,” he began to mention a conspiracy theory in the Sunday interview about why his current album isn‘t No. 1 in America. Can you talk a little bit about those reasons, why Michael believes his album is not No. 1 and why you and other members of the family don‘t believe it is No. 1? Is there a conspiracy theory out there?
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: There is a conspiracy. And that it is something that I can‘t speak about. But we are well aware of who they are.
But, at the same time, his record is No. 1 around the world. And, at the same time, we are a family that came out to California as a family. And all the different attorneys and agents and accountants, they didn‘t look at us as a family. They looked at us for their own selfish greed, to pull one over here and pull one over there. But, at the same time, it was the mother and father that was so busy keeping us together as a family.
And that has been the task to this day, to keep everything...
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: Go ahead.
SCARBOROUGH: I‘m sorry. To keep everybody together.
Now, Michael said he doesn‘t want to talk about the conspiracy theory.
You have said tonight you don‘t want to talk about the conspiracy theory. Does it have something to do with race? Just like Michael went after Sony several year back based on race, does this conspiracy theory have to do with Michael‘s belief that his album is not being promoted because of his race?
JACKSON: If you go back and you trace and track back, then you will find out who the skeletons are. And we know. They know that we know who they are. And there is a conspiracy. And that is all that I can really speak about that.
SCARBOROUGH: But you can‘t say whether it has anything to do with Michael‘s race or your family?
JACKSON: Well, it has a lot to do with race.
It has a lot to do with the fact, jealousy, which is a disease. It has a lot to do with a lot of things. And, at the same time, knowing how we were raised and knowing that we were raised in a family with God in our lives, and to know God‘s got a hand in all of this and he is not going to let them do away with Michael or my family, because of the fact that we were put here to entertain and to bring happiness to people and to people who are less fortunate. And that has been our task and our job.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, talk a little bit about faith. You brought up God. I know, back in the 1980s, at least, there was talk that Michael Jackson was a Jehovah‘s Witness. Now we are hearing that Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam is starting to get involved, not only with his personal and spiritual life, but also his financial life.
Can you confirm that, that the Nation of Islam is now involved in Michael‘s business and personal affairs?
JACKSON: The Nation of Islam, there is some security that works with Michael from the Nation.
But we didn‘t ask them to pray. We asked them to secure him. I‘m the Muslim in the family. And Michael is a Christian. And he‘s a very strong person. He believes in God. He is a wonderful father. He is a wonderful person. He is a wonderful brother. And we believe there is a supreme being, which is God.
SCARBOROUGH: Was faith important to your family growing up?
JACKSON: Very–very much, very much, yes.
SCARBOROUGH: OK.
Well, I‘ll tell you what. Coming up, we‘ve got much more on the Michael Jackson case. Jermaine is sticking around to field some tough questions about his little brother.
And then, Michael Jackson‘s national interview, did it help his case or did it hurt the pop star. We are going to ask our experts on who is winning the P.R. war.
And you have waited a whole year for it and, at last, it is here, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY‘s top 10 story stories of 2003.
Stick around. You‘re not going to want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Jermaine Jackson is here in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY tonight talking about the case against his younger brother.
Don‘t go away. We‘ll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, we‘re back with more from Michael‘s brother Jermaine Jackson.
And with him, we have Geraldine Hughes. She‘s author of “Redemption.” And she was the legal secretary for the attorney for the boy who accused Michael Jackson of molesting him in 2003. But now she is a Jackson supporter.
Jermaine, let me start with you in this segment and ask you about your comment obviously that got a lot of attention after Michael‘s arrest. And that was that you believed that this arrest was a modern-day lynching. Explain that to us. Do you still believe, a month or so later, that it is still a modern-day lynching? And, again, does that lynching have to do with Michael‘s race?
JACKSON: It has a lot to do with the way the media is handling everything.
And I‘ll say, there‘s so much more important things that are going on in the world and–but yet, they put my brother at the top of the headlines. I mean, the capture of Saddam, it was just one day. And the next, you see Michael is at the top of the headlines. Do you patronize him of the great things that he has done? No, you don‘t. But you talk about false allegations and things that are not true. And it is all over the world. And this is only designed to bring him down. He knows that. We know that.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: But, you know, though, Michael Jackson is one of the most famous people in the world. I mean, you saw that scene of him driving through Las Vegas. People are so fascinated by Michael Jackson.
JACKSON: Yes.
But, while he was out there getting his accolades and selling his records and breaking records, it wasn‘t known the way they are putting out these false allegations on him. That‘s my point.
SCARBOROUGH: OK.
JACKSON: When it is something negative, they are so quick to put it out there. But when it is something positive–he is a wonderful humanitarian who has donated hundreds of millions to charities around the world and people who are in need through donations and contributions. I mean, do you talk about that? No, you don‘t.
SCARBOROUGH: Geraldine, let me bring you in now.
You obviously worked for the legal team that went after Michael Jackson 10 years ago. But yet, you wrote a book supporting Michael Jackson. Why did you switch sides?
GERALDINE HUGHES, AUTHOR, “REDEMPTION”: The book was actually written to reveal information that I had concerning the fact that Michael Jackson was innocent, that these charges from 1993, that they were–he was–that it was a setup.
That was my main reason, because this information, as you will recall, when the case first settled, none of this information–this information was given to the investigation team, but because it settled, it never came to the public‘s attention. And I felt the urgency to write the book because I didn‘t realize that the world were thinking–that they were thinking that he was guilty just because he settled.
I had information that–and there was still a lot of information that had not come to the public‘s attention that would have very, very heavily weighed in Michael‘s direction, as far as his innocence. But minus that information, that is why the public was thinking that he was guilty, only because he settled.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Geraldine, why did he settle if you had information proving he was innocent? And what is that information?
HUGHES: I took the liberty and the opportunity of laying it out in a chapter by chapter. I mean, I truly lay it out from the front to the end of the book. For me to just–it is kind of like one of those things where I can‘t just throw a bone.
A bone by itself is not going to answer your question, because this whole thing was very elaborately put together. It was not an overnight thing. It was well-thought out.
JACKSON: It was extortion.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Was it a shakedown, Geraldine? Are saying that it was a shakedown?
JACKSON: It was a shakedown, money extortion. That‘s what it was.
Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: And, Jermaine, is it your belief now that this–these charges against your brother is nothing more than a shakedown for more money?
JACKSON: You said it.
SCARBOROUGH: Is that what you believe?
JACKSON: You said it. Yes.
SCARBOROUGH: OK, but you‘re not going to say it? Are you going to say it?
JACKSON: That‘s my opinion. It is, yes.
SCARBOROUGH: That‘s your opinion. OK.
Now, in his “60 Minutes” interview, Michael talked about why he lets kids sleep in his bed. And this is what he said: “What‘s wrong with sharing your bed? I didn‘t say I slept in the bed. Even if I did sleep in the bed, it‘s OK.”
Jermaine, I want to ask you this. If my brother were going–and I got a brother. If my brother were going on TV and he caught the grief that your brother has caught for some of these comments before about sleeping with kids, I would say to him, I would say, George, talk to them all you want to talk to them, but when they start talking about kids and sleeping in your bedroom, whatever, keep your mouth shut. Don‘t say a word.
Do you understand why some people would scratch their head and say, gee, why would Michael say that again on “60 Minutes,” when it was the BBC documentary that got him in trouble in the first place?
JACKSON: Because, first of all, Martin Bashir is just not right for what he did.
Secondly, Michael is saying to you that he is not sleeping in the bed with children. At the same time, when my kids‘ friends come over, they all take the bed. We give them the bed. Sometimes we‘re in the bed. And they all just–they‘ll get in the bed. Then their friend will get in the bed or they are on the floor.
The problem is, the world is so sick now because they want to believe the worst. Just like he said, he is not Jack the Ripper. He is not a child molester. So there is nothing wrong with it. And people understand that. They really do.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, there may not be something wrong with that. But, again, in the BBC interview and even in this interview on “60 Minutes” this past week, Michael said there would be nothing wrong if he, a 45-year-old man, slept with a 13-year-old boy in his bed. Do you agree with that?
JACKSON: No, he did not say if he slept with a 13-year-old boy.
He said if he shares his bed, let someone sleep in his bed while he sleeps on the floor. But he said, if he were to sleep in the bed, he is not thinking sex.
SCARBOROUGH: Sure.
JACKSON: So why would we think that?
If he was Jack the Ripper or a child molester, yes. But he‘s not that. When the captain of the Boy Scouts takes a bunch of Boy Scouts in the mountains, is everybody thinking he is molesting all the Boy Scouts? No, because they know he‘s not that.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: So what are we saying here? We have a lot of sick people in the world. And it‘s up to the media to report the news and not form opinions. And that‘s been the problem here. They–they–they make their own opinions. And then you have a problem with everybody walking around misled, because that is what has gone on all this time.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, well, certainly, as we said last night–and the people we had on, after seeing the “60 Minutes” interview, said they didn‘t think that Michael Jackson was having sex with boys that came over and slept over at his ranch and also in his bedroom.
But, at the same time, though, but you got to admit, most 45-year-old, 50-year-old men don‘t have younger boys sleeping in their beds. Is that a safe assumption to make?
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Let me clear one thing up.
I‘m 49. And children come to our home all the time. Secondly, Michael is not sleeping with little boys. They are children. They are little girls. There are children who are wanting to be around Michael. He gravitate–we all gravitate kids. Kids come around us all the time. This is what they want the world to believe. And that‘s not true.
SCARBOROUGH: So Michael doesn‘t actually–you‘re saying here tonight that Michael Jackson does not sleep in beds with 12-, 13-, 14-year-old boys?
JACKSON: No, he does not. And he told you that.
SCARBOROUGH: OK.
JACKSON: Thank you.
SCARBOROUGH: Tell me what‘s next for your family, what‘s next for Michael. What are you all going to do between now and the trial to try to support your brother? And are all your family members lined up behind Michael and supporting him 100 percent?
Because, of course, like any family, there have been splits in the past. Is everybody together and lined up and on one page in support of Michael?
JACKSON: We are very much together. And we are going to continue to be together. We are going to have family day. I guess the next family day is at Janet‘s place. And we get together. And the younger generation perform for us. And we eat food and we have fun. And we go on with our lives.
But we are not turning our backs on what is going on. But we are 1,000 percent behind Michael and we are going to continue to be a family. And we are also in the studio recording a new Jackson Five C.D. as well.
SCARBOROUGH: Is Michael part of that?
JACKSON: Absolutely.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, when are you expecting that to come out?
JACKSON: Well, we plan to have it ready sometime for the summer of next year, which is in a few days.
SCARBOROUGH: All right. Well, I know a lot of people are going to be looking forward to hearing that. And I appreciate both of you being with us tonight, Jermaine Jackson and Geraldine Hughes. We certainly appreciate it.
JACKSON: Thank you.
[end of Jermaine Jackson and Geraldine Hughes section]
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3847944/
Read the complete transcript to Tuesday's showUpdated: 12:20 p.m. ET Dec. 31, 2003Guest: Jesse Lee Peterson, Lynn Snowden Picket, Michael Musto, Geraldine Hughes, Jermaine Jackson
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight: a Michael Jackson exclusive.
Jermaine Jackson is here to talk about the case against his little brother.
You‘re about to enter SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. No passport required, no presumption of guilt allowed.
This week, Michael Jackson talked about the first time about the charges against him. Shortly after that, his spokesman quit. Is there dissension in the Jackson camp? We are going to get the inside story from his brother Jermaine.
And it‘s that time of year again, a time to take a look back at the defining moments of 2003. SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY‘s top 10 stories of the year from flyover space, from Rush Limbaugh to the liberation of Iraq, including the stories that the media elite ignored.
Plus, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY‘s favorite moments caught on tape.
In the case of Michael Jackson, Americans are once again being reminded that, in our country, a man is still innocent until proven guilty. It is time for tonight‘s “Real Deal.”
Celebrity justice is sounding more like an oxymoron every day, when superstars like Michael, Kobe or Rush tried in the tabloids well before the first jury member is chosen. It‘s easy to forget that all defendants, all defendants, are to be considered innocent until our government proves them to be guilty.
But following the Michael Jackson case, it has shown us that there are perils of predicting a legal outcome before the case is tried before a jury. Just a month ago, most talking heads practically put Jackson behind bars before the first charge had even been filed against him. But now, but now, following Sunday‘s “60 Minutes” episode, many are predicting that Michael is going to walk.
Regardless of how the wind blows next week, we all need to remember that Michael Jackson is, first and foremost, an American citizen. And as an American citizen, he is entitled to the same constitutional rights that you and I enjoy. Above all, that means a right to a fair trial. And for that to happen, this case, just like Kobe‘s case, just like Rush‘s case, needs to be tried in the courtroom and not on the pages of tabloid magazines. And that is tonight‘s “Real Deal.”
I‘m joined now by Michael Jackson‘s brother Jermaine Jackson.
Jermaine, thank you so much for being with us tonight in SCARBOROUGH
COUNTRY.
And all of America is talking about Michael‘s “60 Minutes” interview this past week. How is Michael feeling? How are you feeling? How are your parents feeling about his performance on “60 Minutes”?
JERMAINE JACKSON, BROTHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Well, his performance was from his heart. He was speaking from his heart. He was telling the truth and very sincere. We were very happy. And we support him 1,000 percent. And we feel that he is very innocent of all of this.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, does Michael believe that the reaction of America to the interview has turned the case in his favor and turned the tide away from the state prosecutor and into his direction?
JACKSON: Well, I really don‘t know what he feels in his heart.
But I do know, after seeing the interview anybody, any American citizen can see that he is very sincere, very honest, and that he is telling the truth. But you get people who want to just not believe it. Like, someone mentioned–he had mentioned that he can‘t move his arm across this way and they said, well, he can scratch his head. That is a different movement.
But, at the same time, he told you how he was treated. Why would he lie? But the American people, or just the media, someone, just don‘t want to believe that, that he was treated that way.
SCARBOROUGH: What‘s been your family‘s reaction to the interview, especially your parents? I know this has to be–so many people forget that celebrities are human beings first and they have mothers and fathers and family members. And this is a terrible ordeal, regardless of whether you are a superstar or a regular guy.
How are your parents and the family enduring this terrible ordeal?
JACKSON: Well, my family is very strong and we‘re very unified. And we‘re supporting Michael 1,000 percent.
And we are disappointed in the system in which the media has handled this whole thing. They have tried to convict my brother off of false allegations that has no bit of–it doesn‘t support the truth. But, at the same time, we have our children pledging allegiance to the flag. And I do believe it says one nation under God and liberty and justice for all. And I feel, if this is justice, then we really need to rewrite the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag and also we need to take the Statue of Liberty and give it back to France, because this is not justice.
And the way the media has acted, they are not representative of the dignity and the integrity that the Statue of Liberty represents, in no way.
SCARBOROUGH: Jermaine, give us some specific instances. Who do you believe has been unjust towards your brother? And what media outlets do you believe have treated him unfairly?
JACKSON: Well, when you look at–they never talk about what a wonderful person he is.
They never talk about the–that he is the biggest superstar on planet Earth. But then, when Saddam was captured, that made the front cover one day. And Michael was back on the tabloids, in the headlines, not of his humanitarian efforts, but from false allegations. And this is just not fair. It is just not right.
And then you have people who don‘t know him, from the Gloria Allreds and the Diane Dimonds, who, when they speak of him, you can see their face gets all twisted up. And they don‘t even know him. How would they have so much hatred towards him? This is nothing but jealousy. And we all know what jealousy is all about. There‘s no limits how far they would stoop and go to the pits of stupidity and ignorance. It‘s just stupid.
But yet, they are reporting to millions out there stupidity and ignorance. And that is what disturbs me the most. And it just bothers my whole family.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, your brother told “60 Minutes” the following: “The police manhandled me very roughly. My shoulder is dislocated, literally.”
But, Jermaine, as you alluded to earlier, a lot of people are pointing to the video of him waving and giving the peace sign after being released from police custody. How is Michael and how are his attorneys explaining the discrepancy between what he told “60 Minutes” and, of course, these images of him waving that you have seen several times over the past few days?
JACKSON: Well, you have seen the bruises.
And knowing my brother and knowing from being on stage, if you are hurting, you still have to go on. His fans were there and he didn‘t want them to know that he was hurting. And I mentioned earlier, when he reached across, he couldn‘t reach any further than this. But some commentator mentioned, well, he didn‘t have a problem scratching his head. Can‘t you see the scratches on his arm and the bruises? Why would he lie about that?
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: What about the shoulder–I‘m sorry–where he said he had a separated shoulder and couldn‘t lift his arms up over his shoulders? Does he still have–has he been treated medically for his separated shoulder?
JACKSON: I‘m pretty sure he has.
But, from my understanding and knowing Michael, he is very fragile. And for someone to willingly turn themselves in and for them to handcuff him, that was totally wrong. And then, from my understanding, the bail set for the state of California is only $65,000. And to put a $3 million bail on him and, at the same time, Michael was cleared of four different police agencies, from the L.A., to the sheriff‘s department, to Santa Barbara as well.
And they all cleared him. And they interviewed at least 400 people and found nothing. But this goes on and on and on. It‘s crazy.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, you‘ve obviously heard Michael talk about how difficult it‘s been for him to be raised in the Jackson family, that he never had a childhood.
Talk a little bit about that and talk about how tough it was growing up a Jackson, growing up a superstar from a very early age.
JACKSON: Well, many people do not know our lives as young children. They knew us as the Jackson Five. But there were many years before the Jackson Five days of being around the house in Gary, Indiana, the house a size of a two-car garage, working very hard, shoveling walks during the winter time.
And we all didn‘t get that much of an other childhood, because we were always rehearsing and getting ready for shows and things. So now we relive our childhood through our children and through their friends. And we are always around children all the time.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, and, tell me, why did–I had somebody ask me this today when they heard you were going to be on the show tonight. They said, I wonder, why did Michael turn out so differently from Jermaine and his other brothers? Because, obviously, Michael is a character all unto himself.
He doesn‘t look like you. He doesn‘t talk like you, doesn‘t walk like you, doesn‘t act like you. What was the difference between Michael and you and your other brothers?
JACKSON: There is no difference from Michael.
Michael has a skin disorder called vitiligo. And it‘s discoloration of the skin. We all know that. They know that. And, at the same time, for someone to even look at him differently, then they want him to be different. Michael is my brother. I‘m his brother. And he is no different from me or anybody else in our family.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, you know, Michael also mentioned–talking about skin color and race, Michael earlier had talked about how race played a factor in his last solo album not doing as well.
And on “60 Minutes,” he began to mention a conspiracy theory in the Sunday interview about why his current album isn‘t No. 1 in America. Can you talk a little bit about those reasons, why Michael believes his album is not No. 1 and why you and other members of the family don‘t believe it is No. 1? Is there a conspiracy theory out there?
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: There is a conspiracy. And that it is something that I can‘t speak about. But we are well aware of who they are.
But, at the same time, his record is No. 1 around the world. And, at the same time, we are a family that came out to California as a family. And all the different attorneys and agents and accountants, they didn‘t look at us as a family. They looked at us for their own selfish greed, to pull one over here and pull one over there. But, at the same time, it was the mother and father that was so busy keeping us together as a family.
And that has been the task to this day, to keep everything...
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: Go ahead.
SCARBOROUGH: I‘m sorry. To keep everybody together.
Now, Michael said he doesn‘t want to talk about the conspiracy theory.
You have said tonight you don‘t want to talk about the conspiracy theory. Does it have something to do with race? Just like Michael went after Sony several year back based on race, does this conspiracy theory have to do with Michael‘s belief that his album is not being promoted because of his race?
JACKSON: If you go back and you trace and track back, then you will find out who the skeletons are. And we know. They know that we know who they are. And there is a conspiracy. And that is all that I can really speak about that.
SCARBOROUGH: But you can‘t say whether it has anything to do with Michael‘s race or your family?
JACKSON: Well, it has a lot to do with race.
It has a lot to do with the fact, jealousy, which is a disease. It has a lot to do with a lot of things. And, at the same time, knowing how we were raised and knowing that we were raised in a family with God in our lives, and to know God‘s got a hand in all of this and he is not going to let them do away with Michael or my family, because of the fact that we were put here to entertain and to bring happiness to people and to people who are less fortunate. And that has been our task and our job.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, talk a little bit about faith. You brought up God. I know, back in the 1980s, at least, there was talk that Michael Jackson was a Jehovah‘s Witness. Now we are hearing that Louis Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam is starting to get involved, not only with his personal and spiritual life, but also his financial life.
Can you confirm that, that the Nation of Islam is now involved in Michael‘s business and personal affairs?
JACKSON: The Nation of Islam, there is some security that works with Michael from the Nation.
But we didn‘t ask them to pray. We asked them to secure him. I‘m the Muslim in the family. And Michael is a Christian. And he‘s a very strong person. He believes in God. He is a wonderful father. He is a wonderful person. He is a wonderful brother. And we believe there is a supreme being, which is God.
SCARBOROUGH: Was faith important to your family growing up?
JACKSON: Very–very much, very much, yes.
SCARBOROUGH: OK.
Well, I‘ll tell you what. Coming up, we‘ve got much more on the Michael Jackson case. Jermaine is sticking around to field some tough questions about his little brother.
And then, Michael Jackson‘s national interview, did it help his case or did it hurt the pop star. We are going to ask our experts on who is winning the P.R. war.
And you have waited a whole year for it and, at last, it is here, SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY‘s top 10 story stories of 2003.
Stick around. You‘re not going to want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Jermaine Jackson is here in SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY tonight talking about the case against his younger brother.
Don‘t go away. We‘ll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, we‘re back with more from Michael‘s brother Jermaine Jackson.
And with him, we have Geraldine Hughes. She‘s author of “Redemption.” And she was the legal secretary for the attorney for the boy who accused Michael Jackson of molesting him in 2003. But now she is a Jackson supporter.
Jermaine, let me start with you in this segment and ask you about your comment obviously that got a lot of attention after Michael‘s arrest. And that was that you believed that this arrest was a modern-day lynching. Explain that to us. Do you still believe, a month or so later, that it is still a modern-day lynching? And, again, does that lynching have to do with Michael‘s race?
JACKSON: It has a lot to do with the way the media is handling everything.
And I‘ll say, there‘s so much more important things that are going on in the world and–but yet, they put my brother at the top of the headlines. I mean, the capture of Saddam, it was just one day. And the next, you see Michael is at the top of the headlines. Do you patronize him of the great things that he has done? No, you don‘t. But you talk about false allegations and things that are not true. And it is all over the world. And this is only designed to bring him down. He knows that. We know that.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: But, you know, though, Michael Jackson is one of the most famous people in the world. I mean, you saw that scene of him driving through Las Vegas. People are so fascinated by Michael Jackson.
JACKSON: Yes.
But, while he was out there getting his accolades and selling his records and breaking records, it wasn‘t known the way they are putting out these false allegations on him. That‘s my point.
SCARBOROUGH: OK.
JACKSON: When it is something negative, they are so quick to put it out there. But when it is something positive–he is a wonderful humanitarian who has donated hundreds of millions to charities around the world and people who are in need through donations and contributions. I mean, do you talk about that? No, you don‘t.
SCARBOROUGH: Geraldine, let me bring you in now.
You obviously worked for the legal team that went after Michael Jackson 10 years ago. But yet, you wrote a book supporting Michael Jackson. Why did you switch sides?
GERALDINE HUGHES, AUTHOR, “REDEMPTION”: The book was actually written to reveal information that I had concerning the fact that Michael Jackson was innocent, that these charges from 1993, that they were–he was–that it was a setup.
That was my main reason, because this information, as you will recall, when the case first settled, none of this information–this information was given to the investigation team, but because it settled, it never came to the public‘s attention. And I felt the urgency to write the book because I didn‘t realize that the world were thinking–that they were thinking that he was guilty just because he settled.
I had information that–and there was still a lot of information that had not come to the public‘s attention that would have very, very heavily weighed in Michael‘s direction, as far as his innocence. But minus that information, that is why the public was thinking that he was guilty, only because he settled.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Geraldine, why did he settle if you had information proving he was innocent? And what is that information?
HUGHES: I took the liberty and the opportunity of laying it out in a chapter by chapter. I mean, I truly lay it out from the front to the end of the book. For me to just–it is kind of like one of those things where I can‘t just throw a bone.
A bone by itself is not going to answer your question, because this whole thing was very elaborately put together. It was not an overnight thing. It was well-thought out.
JACKSON: It was extortion.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Was it a shakedown, Geraldine? Are saying that it was a shakedown?
JACKSON: It was a shakedown, money extortion. That‘s what it was.
Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: And, Jermaine, is it your belief now that this–these charges against your brother is nothing more than a shakedown for more money?
JACKSON: You said it.
SCARBOROUGH: Is that what you believe?
JACKSON: You said it. Yes.
SCARBOROUGH: OK, but you‘re not going to say it? Are you going to say it?
JACKSON: That‘s my opinion. It is, yes.
SCARBOROUGH: That‘s your opinion. OK.
Now, in his “60 Minutes” interview, Michael talked about why he lets kids sleep in his bed. And this is what he said: “What‘s wrong with sharing your bed? I didn‘t say I slept in the bed. Even if I did sleep in the bed, it‘s OK.”
Jermaine, I want to ask you this. If my brother were going–and I got a brother. If my brother were going on TV and he caught the grief that your brother has caught for some of these comments before about sleeping with kids, I would say to him, I would say, George, talk to them all you want to talk to them, but when they start talking about kids and sleeping in your bedroom, whatever, keep your mouth shut. Don‘t say a word.
Do you understand why some people would scratch their head and say, gee, why would Michael say that again on “60 Minutes,” when it was the BBC documentary that got him in trouble in the first place?
JACKSON: Because, first of all, Martin Bashir is just not right for what he did.
Secondly, Michael is saying to you that he is not sleeping in the bed with children. At the same time, when my kids‘ friends come over, they all take the bed. We give them the bed. Sometimes we‘re in the bed. And they all just–they‘ll get in the bed. Then their friend will get in the bed or they are on the floor.
The problem is, the world is so sick now because they want to believe the worst. Just like he said, he is not Jack the Ripper. He is not a child molester. So there is nothing wrong with it. And people understand that. They really do.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, there may not be something wrong with that. But, again, in the BBC interview and even in this interview on “60 Minutes” this past week, Michael said there would be nothing wrong if he, a 45-year-old man, slept with a 13-year-old boy in his bed. Do you agree with that?
JACKSON: No, he did not say if he slept with a 13-year-old boy.
He said if he shares his bed, let someone sleep in his bed while he sleeps on the floor. But he said, if he were to sleep in the bed, he is not thinking sex.
SCARBOROUGH: Sure.
JACKSON: So why would we think that?
If he was Jack the Ripper or a child molester, yes. But he‘s not that. When the captain of the Boy Scouts takes a bunch of Boy Scouts in the mountains, is everybody thinking he is molesting all the Boy Scouts? No, because they know he‘s not that.
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: So what are we saying here? We have a lot of sick people in the world. And it‘s up to the media to report the news and not form opinions. And that‘s been the problem here. They–they–they make their own opinions. And then you have a problem with everybody walking around misled, because that is what has gone on all this time.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, well, certainly, as we said last night–and the people we had on, after seeing the “60 Minutes” interview, said they didn‘t think that Michael Jackson was having sex with boys that came over and slept over at his ranch and also in his bedroom.
But, at the same time, though, but you got to admit, most 45-year-old, 50-year-old men don‘t have younger boys sleeping in their beds. Is that a safe assumption to make?
(CROSSTALK)
JACKSON: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Let me clear one thing up.
I‘m 49. And children come to our home all the time. Secondly, Michael is not sleeping with little boys. They are children. They are little girls. There are children who are wanting to be around Michael. He gravitate–we all gravitate kids. Kids come around us all the time. This is what they want the world to believe. And that‘s not true.
SCARBOROUGH: So Michael doesn‘t actually–you‘re saying here tonight that Michael Jackson does not sleep in beds with 12-, 13-, 14-year-old boys?
JACKSON: No, he does not. And he told you that.
SCARBOROUGH: OK.
JACKSON: Thank you.
SCARBOROUGH: Tell me what‘s next for your family, what‘s next for Michael. What are you all going to do between now and the trial to try to support your brother? And are all your family members lined up behind Michael and supporting him 100 percent?
Because, of course, like any family, there have been splits in the past. Is everybody together and lined up and on one page in support of Michael?
JACKSON: We are very much together. And we are going to continue to be together. We are going to have family day. I guess the next family day is at Janet‘s place. And we get together. And the younger generation perform for us. And we eat food and we have fun. And we go on with our lives.
But we are not turning our backs on what is going on. But we are 1,000 percent behind Michael and we are going to continue to be a family. And we are also in the studio recording a new Jackson Five C.D. as well.
SCARBOROUGH: Is Michael part of that?
JACKSON: Absolutely.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, when are you expecting that to come out?
JACKSON: Well, we plan to have it ready sometime for the summer of next year, which is in a few days.
SCARBOROUGH: All right. Well, I know a lot of people are going to be looking forward to hearing that. And I appreciate both of you being with us tonight, Jermaine Jackson and Geraldine Hughes. We certainly appreciate it.
JACKSON: Thank you.
[end of Jermaine Jackson and Geraldine Hughes section]
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3847944/