'The Situation with Tucker Carlson' for June 13
Read the transcript to the Monday show
Updated: 1:50 p.m. ET June 14, 2005
Guest: Rachel Maddow, Jay Severin, Al Sharpton, Max Kellerman
(warning: Absolutely asinine, disgusting and defamatory comments from Carlson)
To discuss Michael Jackson and more, I am pleased to welcome sports pundit and ESPN radio host Max Kellerman.
Welcome, Max.
MAX KELLERMAN, ESPN RADIO HOST: How you doing, Tucker? Thank you.
Thank you very much.
CARLSON: So the thriller is over. Michael Jackson found not guilty on all 10 counts of molesting a 13-year-old cancer survivor at his Neverland Ranch. Even after the prosecution presented evidence and witnesses that displayed Jackson as a creepy pervert who preyed on little boys, he leaves the courthouse scot-free.
Max, I am completely shocked by this verdict. I sat there agog in my chair in my office this afternoon watching this. Here is a guy who admitted that he sleeps with children. All sorts of household staff who have worked for him for a long time said, “Yes, he molested the kids. He gives them alcohol.”
And then you have a mostly white jury–the dreaded all-white jury–who we know for certain loves nothing more than...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLERMAN: You were banking on that all-white jury!
CARLSON: No, I‘m serious.
KELLERMAN: You were banking on that all-white jury, weren‘t you, Tucker?
CARLSON: That‘s ridiculous. My point is, it seemed for certain that he was going to be convicted. This is shocking.
KELLERMAN: Well, I don‘t–I‘m shocked that everyone‘s shocked, the fact that everyone is so shocked. I‘m at ESPN Radio in New York. WABC Sean Hannity does his show out of there. And oh, everyone‘s staff is gathered around looking at this supposed news story, which is hardly even a news story at all.
I mean, it‘s not hard news. It‘s salacious. It‘s sensational journalism. And everyone‘s so upset at the verdict. Why? We weren‘t in court. We don‘t know what the jury was thinking. Look, the bottom line about Michael Jackson is...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That‘s completely not–wait a minute, but hold on. This is not a complicated–this was not a complicated trial that turned on esoteric scientific evidence. To repeat, he said–he told the world on ABC primetime television, “Yes, I sleep with children.”
KELLERMAN: OK, let me ask you something. What kind of pedophilic projection is this that people make on Michael Jackson? You mean to tell me that when people hear that a guy is sleeping in the bed with a 14-year-old boy, what‘s going through their mind, “Who could possibly resist a luscious 14-year-old boy?”
I mean, what?
CARLSON: Max, Max...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Let me let you in on something...
KELLERMAN: ... boy is the last thing I would be thinking is molesting them.
CARLSON: Well, if you had organized your life around the activity of sleeping with 14-year-old boys, if you had built a theme park in your backyard, if you had essentially given up all productive work to invite 14-year-old boys over, solely for the purpose of getting them into bed with you, I think that would suggest a sexual attraction of 14-year-old boys. I don‘t think it‘s a stretch.
KELLERMAN: Maybe, but the jury didn‘t.
Look, what this really is about, just like O.J. Simpson, just like all celebrity trials, is money. You know, if those who are accused had matching funds for the government, there would be far fewer convictions.
For instance, right now I‘m an expert witness at a trial, in an ongoing trial. I can‘t even explain to you–I‘m making more money today working on that trial than I am coming here and appearing on national television. Now, poor people can‘t afford me to trot out expert witnesses to trot out. Rich people can, so rich people get justice and poor people don‘t.
Michael Jackson...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But wait a second. Wait a second. It‘s a well-known fact - a well-known fact–that ordinary people resent the heck out of rich celebrities. Why should he have, you know, a Ferris wheel in his backyard? Why should he have a chimp waiting on him like a waiter? Why should he be able to afford the Elephant Man‘s remains, right? They‘re resentful.
KELLERMAN: I have a friend who is a defense attorney, Nick Kahn (ph). This guy is a great–he preps juries this way. He says, “Look, if I were to tell you right now, ‘Vote guilty or not guilty right now,‘ what would you vote?” And the jury usually says–the members of the jury usually say, “I don‘t know. What are the facts?”
Wrong. If you are to vote with no facts, you must necessarily vote not guilty because there is a presumption of innocence. Clearly, the prosecution didn‘t prove their case. It‘s not Michael Jackson‘s job to prove that he‘s innocent.
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8216294/
Read the transcript to the Monday show
Updated: 1:50 p.m. ET June 14, 2005
Guest: Rachel Maddow, Jay Severin, Al Sharpton, Max Kellerman
(warning: Absolutely asinine, disgusting and defamatory comments from Carlson)
To discuss Michael Jackson and more, I am pleased to welcome sports pundit and ESPN radio host Max Kellerman.
Welcome, Max.
MAX KELLERMAN, ESPN RADIO HOST: How you doing, Tucker? Thank you.
Thank you very much.
CARLSON: So the thriller is over. Michael Jackson found not guilty on all 10 counts of molesting a 13-year-old cancer survivor at his Neverland Ranch. Even after the prosecution presented evidence and witnesses that displayed Jackson as a creepy pervert who preyed on little boys, he leaves the courthouse scot-free.
Max, I am completely shocked by this verdict. I sat there agog in my chair in my office this afternoon watching this. Here is a guy who admitted that he sleeps with children. All sorts of household staff who have worked for him for a long time said, “Yes, he molested the kids. He gives them alcohol.”
And then you have a mostly white jury–the dreaded all-white jury–who we know for certain loves nothing more than...
(CROSSTALK)
KELLERMAN: You were banking on that all-white jury!
CARLSON: No, I‘m serious.
KELLERMAN: You were banking on that all-white jury, weren‘t you, Tucker?
CARLSON: That‘s ridiculous. My point is, it seemed for certain that he was going to be convicted. This is shocking.
KELLERMAN: Well, I don‘t–I‘m shocked that everyone‘s shocked, the fact that everyone is so shocked. I‘m at ESPN Radio in New York. WABC Sean Hannity does his show out of there. And oh, everyone‘s staff is gathered around looking at this supposed news story, which is hardly even a news story at all.
I mean, it‘s not hard news. It‘s salacious. It‘s sensational journalism. And everyone‘s so upset at the verdict. Why? We weren‘t in court. We don‘t know what the jury was thinking. Look, the bottom line about Michael Jackson is...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That‘s completely not–wait a minute, but hold on. This is not a complicated–this was not a complicated trial that turned on esoteric scientific evidence. To repeat, he said–he told the world on ABC primetime television, “Yes, I sleep with children.”
KELLERMAN: OK, let me ask you something. What kind of pedophilic projection is this that people make on Michael Jackson? You mean to tell me that when people hear that a guy is sleeping in the bed with a 14-year-old boy, what‘s going through their mind, “Who could possibly resist a luscious 14-year-old boy?”
I mean, what?
CARLSON: Max, Max...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Let me let you in on something...
KELLERMAN: ... boy is the last thing I would be thinking is molesting them.
CARLSON: Well, if you had organized your life around the activity of sleeping with 14-year-old boys, if you had built a theme park in your backyard, if you had essentially given up all productive work to invite 14-year-old boys over, solely for the purpose of getting them into bed with you, I think that would suggest a sexual attraction of 14-year-old boys. I don‘t think it‘s a stretch.
KELLERMAN: Maybe, but the jury didn‘t.
Look, what this really is about, just like O.J. Simpson, just like all celebrity trials, is money. You know, if those who are accused had matching funds for the government, there would be far fewer convictions.
For instance, right now I‘m an expert witness at a trial, in an ongoing trial. I can‘t even explain to you–I‘m making more money today working on that trial than I am coming here and appearing on national television. Now, poor people can‘t afford me to trot out expert witnesses to trot out. Rich people can, so rich people get justice and poor people don‘t.
Michael Jackson...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But wait a second. Wait a second. It‘s a well-known fact - a well-known fact–that ordinary people resent the heck out of rich celebrities. Why should he have, you know, a Ferris wheel in his backyard? Why should he have a chimp waiting on him like a waiter? Why should he be able to afford the Elephant Man‘s remains, right? They‘re resentful.
KELLERMAN: I have a friend who is a defense attorney, Nick Kahn (ph). This guy is a great–he preps juries this way. He says, “Look, if I were to tell you right now, ‘Vote guilty or not guilty right now,‘ what would you vote?” And the jury usually says–the members of the jury usually say, “I don‘t know. What are the facts?”
Wrong. If you are to vote with no facts, you must necessarily vote not guilty because there is a presumption of innocence. Clearly, the prosecution didn‘t prove their case. It‘s not Michael Jackson‘s job to prove that he‘s innocent.
Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8216294/