Official August 23 Hearing

The"official" threads posted during the trial

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Tiger Lilly
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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by Tiger Lilly » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:05 pm

Let's just remember that this is just one piece of the puzzle. This is NOT the end, whether A$s-Smelville is corrupt or not. Yes its worrying, I'm not gonna deny it but lets remember all the good that came out of last week and everything else that's kept us going. We can see through all their lies and corruption and I'm sure as hell Mez, Oxman, Cochran, Sanger etc have loads more to throw at the prosecution. Melville ISN'T the one deciding the verdict! Keep the faith x

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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by SpecialJanet25 » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:09 pm

Originally posted by HeavenSent
Yes, they can. In America there's always a higher court than the State w/criminal and civil matters. It's called the Supreme Court.

I think in order for there to even be an appeal, the defense has to put together one hell of an arguement as to why there should be another judge stepping in, ie: Discrimination beyond a shadow of a doubt. And that could take months on end. I know w/Kobe's case, the media is taking a ruling to the Supreme Court about having closed door hearings or something to that effect.

Someone else can correct me, but when it comes to replacing a judge, it's a tedious process.

I guess what I'll do is continue what I've been doing and that is to place my faith in the notion that things WILL work out. I think Michael has surrounded himself w/the best people who will not rest until there is justice. Mez was picked for a reason, so was Cochran, Sanger and the rest. No quitting, not when there's civil liberties being violated. And even tho Melville wants to show his ass at times, it's not the end of the road. Melville ain't got THAT much power when you weigh what's right and what's blatently wrong. I hope sooner or later, it'll come to him to start ruling with his conscience, instead of trying to appease and appeal to Sneddon.

Amen, HeavenSent. This is not over. Sneddon got away of breaking the gag order, that's racist SOB. But Michael says he's looking forward to his day in court and he and his team will fight this outrageous charges once and for all.
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mixahl
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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by mixahl » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:13 pm

[ Melville ain't got THAT much power when you weigh what's right and what's blatently wrong. I hope sooner or later, it'll come to him to start ruling with his conscience, instead of trying to appease and appeal to Sneddon.[/QUOTE]


Thanx heavensent for the feedback, very useful indeed. But first of all let me repeat that I still havent't got it straight: what was it that was decided/said today? what are the facts? Did Melville rule finally on sthng?
Sorry I don't seem to understand, it just hasn't got clear enough so far for me...

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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by HeavenSent » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:14 pm

He, meaning God, brought Michael this far, why would things start to fall apart now?

Remember all the roadblocks Michael has faced that he has manevuered around since this case's inception. I remember how it felt to just give up.

Maybe the thing we ought NOT to do is give Jude Melville so much credit. That one man cannot bring Michael's case to utter despair.

As you said, Gem that lies in the hands of a jury--IF this thing even goes to trial. I think this mother's testimony is going to HIGHLY important. Not only whether or not she is truthful, but also whether or not this case gets tossed.
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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by HeavenSent » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:21 pm

Originally posted by mixahl

Thanx heavensent for the feedback, very useful indeed. But first of all let me repeat that I still havent't got it straight: what was it that was decided/said today? what are the facts? Did Melville rule finally on sthng?
Sorry I don't seem to understand, it just hasn't got clear enough so far for me...
No prob. :D

* Judge Melville ruled that "dozens of items" that had been seized from Neverland back in Nov 03 ARE admissible in court. Meaning the prosecution can use this to argue Michael's so called guilt. But Melville has not made a ruling on all the items, thankfully.

Superior Court Judge Rodney Melville said he was "concerned" about 12 items taken during the Neverland search. The numbers he used indicated those included documents potentially covered by attorney-client privilege.

The judge said he also was inclined to suppress from evidence a number of items he did not list and no hints were given as to what they contained. But he said none of his rulings was final and he would give the defense and prosecution the opportunity to present legal arguments in written briefs and at the next series of court hearings on Sept. 16 and 17.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/3675450/detail.html

*Also, it was ruled that Sneddon did not violate a gag order when he journeyed his ass to Canada for that District Attorney's Conference. There, he admitted that he sent out letters to witnesses, essentially telling them not to go on TV. Melville ruled that it was okay...no gag order violated. That's a bunch of :censored: , but hey....like we said, Melville is one correct son of a b.
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Post by HeavenSent » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:26 pm

Oh yeah...

and also today, the defense tried to argue whether or not the raid of Neverland exceeded the warrants. They were trying to say that the property manager , Joseph Marcus, was not given notice of the extra property that the police raided...thus the raid beyond that point should be deemed illegal.

I'm not to sure about the outcome of this.

*yawn* I'm tired as hell, I need to go eat, lol.
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Jakki17MJ
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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by Jakki17MJ » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:36 pm

Maaannn, everything's all good and quiet for awhile, I log off, I log back on, and find all this stuff? Grrr...I wonder how many golf tournaments Sneddy and Smellville had before deciding on what was gonna go down today?

God, I hope the jury (if this goes to trial) sees through all the prosecution's lies and bullshit, no matter what Melville does.
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You gotta want this man.

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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by mixahl » Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:51 pm

Originally posted by HeavenSent
No prob. :D

* Judge Melville ruled that "dozens of items" that had been seized from Neverland back in Nov 03 ARE admissible in court. Meaning the prosecution can use this to argue Michael's so called guilt. But Melville has not made a ruling on all the items, thankfully.


*Also, it was ruled that Sneddon did not violate a gag order when he journeyed his ass to Canada for that District Attorney's Conference. There, he admitted that he sent out letters to witnesses, essentially telling them not to go on TV. Melville ruled that it was okay...no gag order violated. That's a bunch of :censored: , but hey....like we said, Melville is one correct son of a b.

Right..So, let's get it straight: There was NO reference to Miller's tape and the rest of the material seized by his office. Is that right? If so, I think it's good news guys.. Fisrt of all, eventhought the defense might be right in all of its claims, I never thought that the judge would recognise that in all cases...Let's not forget, he is the judge in a high-profile case, where the accuser is a teenager; he will all along try to keep the balance among the two sides nomatter who's right, the criticism he would face by the public and the atmosphere that the media have created would be intense if he does otherwise...Let me remind you for example that, after Sneddon's ugly appearance on stand last week, when it looked for a while that Melvile could not do differently but accept the defense's claim about his malicious prosecution and attack at Miller's office, pro-prosecution media where suggesting the prosecution could go on and file motions against this decison, and question the judge's reasoning on this etc...

That is to say, my feeling is that he could not allow the defense to win two relevant motions at a time (suppress the 'evidence' taken from Miller's office AND from Neverland), I never thought he would... I thought from the beginning he would let most of the staff taken from Neveland in... (which I don't believe, if I rely on what Roger Freedman has so far reported, that it must include anything 'spectacular'..). I find it good that he has reservations about SOME of the staff taken from Neverland; I think that's good enough based on what I expected personally.And don't forget, in the hearing the defense exposed the methods and tactics used by the prosecution in the Neverland raid, and that is a gain, irrespectively of Mel's decision..

But what's most, the fact that Melville decided as he did on the Neverland staff, and also the fact the he essentially announces it as early as today-before the proceedings on this are completed-, makes me optimistic on what his decision is going to be about Miller's tape. I think that now he can be viewed more 'smoothly' by the public and the pro-prosecution forces in deciding to suppress that 'evidence', that is deciding in favor of the defense, as he will have made one decision in each side's favor. And it was the Miller tape that was the IMPORTANT staff all this week, wasn't it...?

I'm no legal expert obviously, but that's my feeling on this.

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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by Faithful MJ Lover » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:25 pm

:makesense: So :nuffintos for now.... Just :crossyour
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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by ~Vicky~ » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:29 pm

Originally posted by HeavenSent
Well, Melville is allowing "dozens of items" of the evidence to be admissiable, not all. And he won't make a final ruling till Sept. But still.... :2thinking :careless

I cannot help but fully distrust Melville after today though. He puzzled me before, but his ruling on the gag order showed me who's side he's really on.
Exactly, tell me if Mesereau said what Sneddon said at that conference, he would have been okay with it? :censored:

I am SO sick of this, I guess Sneddon won't be being tossed after all, even though it's CLEAR to see that there is a strong hostility between him and Michael. It's so clear..clear as day. He SHOULD be removed. :tickingti

At the rate Melville is going, it looks like the mess is going to trial, the only thing that would prevent it, is if something crucial happened for the defense soon, like if the mother screws up her testimony in September, which I'm hoping on...but I bet Sneddon is coaching her as we speak. Oh well, if it comes to that..I guess Michael will be better off PROVING his innocence in a trial.

I also wondered all last week if Michael intended to show up to the proceedings the whole week. Hopefully, if he ever wanted to show up again, I hope he'd be able to be very very quiet about it, I hope 'sources' close to him won't run their mouths and whatnot. It would be great for him to just SHOW UP, catch everyone off guard..and skip the damn threats.

At first I was confident about this whole thing..Melville seeing the crap, but then I got weary later on..and now even more. Carla, you are right..I shouldn't put hope into any of that man's decisions. I'll just begin save my hope for Michael and his defense team.

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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by mello1 » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:42 pm

From what I've read, Melville has decided to:

1) Side with the prosecution on the gag order ruling. While I'm disappointed, it can be argued that Sneddon never really discussed details of the MJ case. He was only referring to the procedure of impounding potential witnesses with respect to the gag order. Now, if he had discussed specific evidence in the case or things that witnesses had stated, the violation would be more clear.

2) Partially sided with the prosecution with respect to items retrived from the Neverland search warrant. I would imagine that items retrived in the areas clearly covered under the warrent was allowable, unless the defense can make a case that it's not relevant. That may also be the case w.r.t. items retrieved from other areas as well. But since we don't know what items they are referring to, it will be hard to say whether the items allowed hurts MJ's case.

3) The judge has not ruled on the what I consider is the big piece to this case and that's the violation of attorney/client privilege, thus disallowing the prosecution from using anything retrieved from PI Miller's office against MJ. I find it difficult that there would be anything that Miller had in his office would be damaging to MJ. However the prosecution could be using what they have (including tapes of some sort) to nullify Jackson's defense. I think that's the key here.

In terms of the defense asking for a new judge, yes they can, but one has to be careful here. The defense wouldn't get to pick the replacement and another judge could be worse. In terms of appealing to a high court on rulings made by Melville, I think that the defense would have to prove that Melville misapplied the law in his rulings. I don't think that we are there... yet.

KEEP THE FAITH FOLKS. We got a long way to go in this one.

~Vicky~

Official August 23 Hearing

Post by ~Vicky~ » Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:51 pm

Originally posted by mello1
The judge has not ruled on the what I consider is the big piece to this case and that's the violation of attorney/client privilege, thus disallowing the prosecution from using anything retrieved from PI Miller's office against MJ. I find it difficult that there would be anything that Miller had in his office would be damaging to MJ. However the prosecution is using what they have (including tapes of some sort) to nullify Jackson's defense. I think that's the key here.
That's exactly what I'm weary about. I from what I saw and read and heard about the day that Sneddon testified..it was clear to everyone (except the people that are with the prosecution no matter what) else that there was something on..that Sneddon wasn't being honest about everything. I assumed that would be apparent to Melville as well, but like I said..I'm not counting on that any longer.

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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by mello1 » Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:02 pm

Originally posted by NevaehDreamz
That's exactly what I'm weary about. I from what I saw and read and heard about the day that Sneddon testified..it was clear to everyone (except the people that are with the prosecution no matter what) else that there was something on..that Sneddon wasn't being honest about everything. I assumed that would be apparent to Melville as well, but like I said..I'm not counting on that any longer.

Well, if I recall, I read somewhere on the MJJForum that Melville had practically made a decision in this matter already and just needed the testimony of the mother. I think that is why he suggested a written deposition so that he could go ahead and make the decision without any more time passing. What this says to me is that he has already heard or read enough to know how he is going to rule and I would speculate that the DA office's testimony was key. In my mind, I think this is a no brainer here. There is no way to reason that the DA's office NEVER KNEW that Miller was in the employ of Geragos. Especially since a memo from Miller to the DA's office was cc'ed to Geragos. By the DA's own admission, they were conducting a secret, criminal investigation of Miller. I would think that anyone Miller comes in contact with would be of interest to investigators. I would expect Melville to rule that at the very least, the DA should have known, based on the evidence submitted, that Miller worked for Geragos. Also, don't forget that the DA directly inserted himself into the investigation of Miller, so he cannot claim plausible deniability.

~Vicky~

Official August 23 Hearing

Post by ~Vicky~ » Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:04 pm

Originally posted by mello1
Well, if I recall, I read somewhere on the MJJForum that Melville had practically made a decision in this matter already and just needed the testimony of the mother. I think that is why he suggested a written deposition so that he could go ahead and make the decision without any more time passing. What this says to me is that he has already heard or read enough to know how he is going to rule and I would speculate that the DA office's testimony was key. In my mind, I think this is a no brainer here. There is no way to reason that the DA's office NEVER KNEW that Miller was in the employ of Geragos. Especially since a memo from Miller to the DA's office was cc'ed to Geragos. By the DA's own admission, they were conducting a secret, criminal investigation of Miller. I would think that anyone Miller comes in contact with would be of interest to investigators. I would expect Melville to rule that at the very least, the DA should have known, based on the evidence submitted, that Miller worked for Geragos. Also, don't forget that the DA directly inserted himself into the investigation of Miller, so he cannot claim plausible deniability.
Very very true, like I said before..it's so clear to everyone else. I would hope Melville would see it as well.

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Official August 23 Hearing

Post by mello1 » Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:11 pm

Originally posted by NevaehDreamz
Very very true, like I said before..it's so clear to everyone else. I would hope Melville would see it as well.
Well, I will tell you this, if Melville rules against Jackson on this, I can see this as something to be appealed to a higher court...

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