Official Katherine Jackson v AEG (2013 07 03)

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Official Katherine Jackson v AEG (2013 07 03)

Post by whisper » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:34 am

(START FROM BOTTOM AND READ UP)


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An upset judge said: This is my concern, we are 9 weeks in this trial and it's getting into mistrial territory. I don't want to go there!

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Judge: there's a ruling prohibiting any testimony, by any expert, on the issue!

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Panish: I know you're upset, I can tell that Judge: I'm not upset, I think it's entirely appropriate Panish: I told her not to do it

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Judge: This is your crucial, central issue in the case Mr. Panish. I'm surprised you had no discussion with her about it

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Judge said that violated the motion in limine regarding this issue. Experts are NOT to give their opinion on whether AEG hired Dr. Murray.

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Outside the presence of the jury, judge discussed with the attorneys about Jean Seawright's testifying yesterday that AEG hired Dr. Murray.

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Dr. Schnoll said some of the patients might have been addicted to Propofol, but others were just abusing it.

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Dr. Schnoll said he has treated tens of thousands of patients and only 5-6 were addicted to Propofol. These people were in the medical field

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The doctor agreed that some lay people could identify the symptoms as flu.

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Dr. Schnoll said most doctors would be able to put all the symptoms together and conclude it is opioid withdrawal.

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Some of opioids withdrawal include chills, running nose, tearing of the eyes, dilated pupil, goose bumps.

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The expert said people would recognize there was something wrong with MJ, but may not be able to recognize it as withdrawal from opioids.

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Dr. Schnoll said people get confused as to whether the patient is addicted or dependent of drugs.

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Cahan: There has got to be some amount of trust between doctor and patient? Dr. Schnoll: Right

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Dr. Schnoll: Well, of they came to me to treat addiction, they usually would come because they wanted to treat their addiction

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Cahan: Did some patients did not want to get treatment?

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Cahan: When you are evaluating a patient you rely on the patient being honest with you, correct? Dr. Schnoll: Yes

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Dr. Schnoll did not offer opinion whether the amount or type of drug MJ was taking for cosmetic and dental work was appropriate.

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"There was no evidence of addiction at that time," Dr. Schnoll said about MJ in 2009.

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Dr. Schnoll said he last prescribed Demerol in the late 1970s. He stopped treating patients in 2001.

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Dr. Schnoll: Probably not at all at this point, pain specialist would not keep Demerol handy

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Dr. Schnoll said use of Demerol for pain went into question in the '90s. Cahan: How common is for pain specialists to have Demerol handy?

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Dr Schnoll said Demerol is not commonly used anymore because it has other effects than just opioids, considered a dirty drug the doctor said

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Dr. Schnoll responded he didn't know, since he doesn't do these procedures.

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Cahan asked if it's common practice to use Demerol for Botox injections and facial fillers treatment.

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Just the fact that Dr. Klein injected MJ with Demerol doesn't raise concern of a relapse of Demerol dependency, Dr. Schnoll.

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Dr. Schnoll: If they have a severe pain problem that can only be treated by opioids, it is appropriate to give it.

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A professional doctor knows the difference between addiction and pseudoaddiction. (nurse juror nodding in agreement)

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Pseudoaddiction is when a patient is undertreated for pain, Dr. Schnoll said.

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Dr. Schnoll said doctor shopping is going from doctor to doctor to receive medication.

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There were weeks he put in 7-8 hours, some didn't do anything. He said it would be hard to estimate, spoke with plaintiff atty 10-15 times

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Dr. Schnoll said he has no idea how many hours he has worked in this case. He was retained back in January.

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Cahan said Pinney Associates is charging $790/hour for Dr. Schnoll's time.

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Dr. Schnoll works for Pinney Associates, he's a salaried employee and receives bonus at the end of the year, should there be one.

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Cahan: You were never hired as a doctor to accompany a band on tour? Dr. Schnoll: That's correct

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"I knew most of them and I knew them well," Dr. Schnoll said.

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Cahan asked if Dr Schnoll brought medical students to help him out. He said yes. She asked if he did background or credit checks on them

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Dr. Schnoll said he acted ethically at that job. He worked at rock concerts in the '70s.

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Cahan: Did you think that created a conflict of interest? Dr. Schnoll: As long as I acted ethically, I did not

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Dr. Schnoll said his primary duty was to treat concert goers. He was paid by the promoters.

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Dr. Schnoll said at times he was asked to treat performers, was hired to provide medical treatment at the facility to fans or artists.

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I know some people who worked at concerts, Dr. Schnoll said. He has been one.

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Cahan: Do you think it's ethical for doctors to go on tour? Dr. Schnoll: It depends on what they do when they go on tour with them

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Dr. Schnoll created the term "Rock Doc", referring to doctors who work on rock n roll concerts.

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Koskoff finished direct examination. AEG attorney Kathryn Cahan did cross examination of Dr. Schnoll.

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Dr. Schnoll said he's reading Richards' book, but hasn't finished yet. Defendant's objected to the doctor talking about it based on hearsay.

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Keith Richards and The Rolling Stones have been performing for 50 years. Richards writes in his autobiography about his drug addiction.

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If MJ got proper treatment, he would have like normal life expectancy, Dr. Schnoll said.

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Drug addicts can die early due to overdose; infections are very common, like HIV, Dr. Schnoll said.

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Dr. Schnoll: If appropriately treated, it would have no affect

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Koskoff: Assuming he was not addicted, but had periods of drug dependency, would that have an impact on his life expectancy?

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Dr. Schnoll agreed MJ had the means to get proper drug dependency treatment.

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Koskoff: Based on Mr. Jackson's family, do you know if any members of his family were addicted? Dr. Schnoll: I have no indication of that

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Dr. Schnoll: Some of the best outcomes in treatment are with people who have a lot to lose if they continue their addiction.

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"The autopsy said he was in really, very good condition," Dr. Schnoll told the jury about MJ.

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Having a supportive family and environment is critical in overcoming addiction, Dr. Schnoll explained.

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Dr. Schnoll: He could've been treated, he could've been treated if he had the proper people

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Koskoff: Let's assume MJ really was addicted to Demerol in 2009, do you have an opinion as to his prognosis for successful treatment?

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Koskoff: Assuming MJ was dependent, do you think proper treatment would be able to eliminate his dependency? Dr. Schnoll: Yes

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Dr. Schnoll said if MJ were treated appropriately for pain and sleeping problems, it would not have an effect in shortening his life.

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Dr. Schnoll: Should MJ have someone knowledgeable for treatment of pain, he could've been treated appropriately

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Dr. Schnoll testified MJ had two major problems: pain and insomnia.

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"He would've been able to continue to perform if he was appropriately treated for the underlying medical conditions," Dr. Schnoll said.

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Dr. Schnoll: If his underlying medical condition, pain, insomnia, had been appropriately treated, he may have been able to get off the drugs

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Koskoff asked if MJ were under the care of a competent doctor, would he have been able to get off the drugs, Demerol and benzodiazepines.

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"They pass catheters and look at hearts, which is totally unrelated to pain," Dr. Schnoll said about cardiologists.

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Dr. Schnoll: Dr. Murray was an interventionist cardiologist and that is a highly specialized field. He had no background in treating pain.

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Koskoff: Assuming AEG hired Dr. Murray, was he fit and competent to treat Michael's sleep problems? Dr. Schnoll: No, he was not

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Koskoff: Assuming AEG hired Dr. Murray, was he fit and competent to treat Michael's pain problems? Dr. Schnoll: No, he was not

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Koskoff: Was Dr. Murray competent to handle MJ's sleep problems? Dr. Schnoll: He was not competent

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Koskoff: Was Dr. Murray competent to handle MJ's drug dependency issues? Dr. Schnoll: He was not competent

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Koskoff: Was Dr. Murray competent to handle MJ's pain? Dr. Schnoll: He was not competent

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The hospital computer overloaded with people trying to get information on what happened with Sinatra, Dr. Schnoll said.

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Dr. Schnoll said once Frank Sinatra went to the hospital he worked after collapsing on the stage.

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Sometimes prescription is given under other people's names, Dr. Schnoll said, since celebrities often don't want people prying their records

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"If you are dependent, you could have some insomnia if you go off of it," Dr. Schnoll testified.

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Koskoff: What does Demerol do to sleep? Dr. Schnoll: When you are taking it, it could make you sleepy

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He also said this drug would not have had effect on MJ on June 25.

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Dr. School said there was no trace of the drug in MJ's body at the time of his death.

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The very last Demerol injection MJ received from Dr. Klein was on June 22, 100 mg dose, according to the records, Dr. Schnoll testified.

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Koskoff: Is there a record MJ was getting Demerol from any other doctor? Dr. Schnoll: No

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Dose went up in January 2009. Dr Schnoll said if a person was previously dependent on Demerol, stops and then resumes, tolerance is built up

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Dr. Schnoll talked about Dr. Klein giving MJ 100mg doses of Demerol in 2008. He said from mid-year to December it was the same amount.

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Dr. Schnoll said Propofol is not appropriate to treat insomnia, even if MJ suggested it.

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Koskoff asked if there was any evidence MJ was addicted or dependent of Propofol up until Dr. Murray. Dr. Schnoll said no.

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Dr. Murray used Propofol for sleep, which Dr. Schnoll said was inappropriate. "Plus, he was not an anesthetic or an anesthesiologist."

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The drug was used for dental procedures and cosmetic treatment, Dr. Schnoll said, adding it was appropriate for that.

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Between 1994 and 1996, Dr. Schnoll saw no evidence of any use of Propofol by MJ under any circumstance.

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Koskoff: What kind of specialist was on that tour for Michael? Dr. Schnoll: He was anesthesiologist

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Dr. Schnoll testified Debbie Rowe said yes, but she wasn't sure if it was Propofol or Fentanyl. He didn't think Rowe was a licensed nurse.

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Koskoff showed a timeline and asked if there was any record MJ received Propofol during the Dangerous tour in 1994.

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Propofol is the most popular anesthetic in the world, Dr. Schnoll said. Propofol is the generic term.

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Dr. Schnoll said after the Propofol infusion stops, the effect wears off quickly.

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"Typically, they steal it from operating room or critical care unit or inject it in a home, or a bathroom," Dr. Schnoll explained.

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Dr. Schnoll treated patients addicted to Propofol. They were health technicians and none had it administered by another person.

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Koskoff: Did he use it for sleep? Dr. Schnoll: Yes K: Is that appropriate? Dr: Yes K: Did MJ have a sleep problem? Dr: Yes

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Dr. Schnoll said MJ was prescribed Midazolam and Versed which is commonly for short term surgical procedures, dental procedures.

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Koskoff: Was there a time MJ did take benzodiazepines? Dr. Schnoll: Yes

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Dr. Schnoll: I don’t know if MJ was an addict. I haven’t seen the information that would allow me to make a diagnosis of addiction

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Koskoff: On Dangerous tour, was MJ getting opioid drugs according to Dr. Finkelstein? Dr. Schnoll: Yes

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Dr. Schnoll talked about the surgery MJ to repair damage to his scalp.

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The expert said he saw evidence MJ was afraid of needles; didn't take medications in excess of what was prescribed by doctors.

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Dr. Schnoll said he saw no evidence that MJ ever used recreational drug or self-injected in the absence of a doctor.

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Koskoff: Do you agree with that opinion? Dr. Schnoll: No

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Koskoff asked if Dr. Schnoll read testimony from Dr. Earley saying MJ was a drug addict and that he was going to die early.

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Koskoff asked if that was consistent with a drug addict. Dr. Schnoll answered no.

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Koskoff said based on the medical records in the last 16 years of MJ’s life, he was Demerol free for 13 1/2 years.

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The patch was done for treatment of Demerol dependency in early 2000s. The drug would block the effect of the opioid, Dr. Schnoll said.

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Dr. Schnoll said he reviewed medical records that Dr. Farshian implanted a patch into MJ's abdomen.

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Koskoff: Was there a period of time when MJ used Demerol for scalp treatments? Dr. Schnoll: Yes

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Koskoff: Any evidence from any witness that MJ used Demerol outside the medical setting? Dr. Schnoll: No

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“Opioids are most popular because they work," Dr. Schnoll said. "Pain is the most common complaint that comes to a doctor's office.”

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Dr. Schnoll explained pain threshold is the level at which someone feels discomfort. They are quite variable, he said.

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Dr. Schnoll: The figures indicate 10 to 12% become addicted, the same percentage of people who become addicted to alcohol.

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Some patients become addicted, Dr. Schnoll said. But it's not s large percentage.

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Dr. Schnoll: if they're on long term opioid treatment, they'll become dependent. Opioids are the most commonly prescribed drugs in the US.

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Koskoff: If a person is being treated, as part of good medical practice, can someone become drug dependent?

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Dr. Schnoll said addiction can also be treated by competent and fit physicians.

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Koskoff: Any famous people who have been opioid dependent? Dr. Schnoll: President John F. Kennedy (Judge asks why?) Back pain.

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If a person has underlying condition and take opioid they could function better, Dr Schnoll explained. There's no harm in doing it medically

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Koskoff: What if a person has chronic osteoarthritis? Dr. Schnoll: May have remain on medication all his life

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Dr. Schnoll said the most important factor in determining if the person should go off the drug is to find out what the underlying problem is

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Methodone is an opioid drug used for pain and treatment of opioid addiction. Dr. Schnoll explained how the drug works.

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Koskoff asked if you take someone off Demorol suddenly what happens. Dr. Schnoll: “like falling off a cliff, you don’t want that to happen.”

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Katherine Jackson was present in court wearing a long periwinkle jacket and pearl earrings.

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Addiction specialist Dr. Sidney Schnoll resumed testimony. Jackson's attorney Michael Koskoff did direct examination.
Last edited by whisper on Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jingles
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Re: Official Katherine Jackson v AEG (2013 07 03)

Post by Jingles » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:38 pm

Thank you for the news. I've been trying to follow this trial the best I can. Some of the news is troubling, like the state of Michael's health. This is one verdict I will be waiting on.
"And it seems I can live my life with you as my rhythm"

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