2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by InspirationMoonwalks » Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:39 am

^^

Video!:


I hadn't actually watched it until now..whoa, she IS pissed! :blink: :lol I don't know if she's more pissed off about the mailers..or how the campaign is going in general. I think she honestly kinda resents Obama--she probably feels like, here's this guy that, compared to her at least, kind of came out of nowhere and has so completely stolen her thunder on so many levels. And I don't mean that as any sort of offense to Hillary, either, but hey, it's the truth. She was pretty much the annointed 'front runner' from the beginning and then, here comes this guy who totally gets this movement behind him and turns it all around..I don't know, there's just this hostility there, in this race, that I honestly don't think we've really seen before, even between Dems and Republicans. It's getting PERSONAL. :unsure: She's in deep political jeopardy here..and she knows it. Playing nice didn't work and neither has being confrontational, so I think she's basically saying the hell with it and just going for whatever she can. Not that things like the campaign mailers aren't valid points of discussion between candidates, they are, but it just sounds I don't know..kind of awkward, especially just after coming off the heels of the whole 'plagerism' thing, which went over like a lead balloon..:cryptic Not to mention the Kindergarten papers and all the other things her campaign has thrown at him..it just kind of seems like she can dish it out but can't take it, you know? (Various examples can be seen here: :whistle)

I do like Hillary, but right now, I'm not really liking her approach and again, I just wish we could stick to the issues--in order to win in November, we need a united party, no matter who the nominee is...so I hope everyone keeps that in sight..

We shall see what happens at that debate on Tuesday! :popcorn
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by danaluvsmj » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:54 pm

Here's an article from Newsweek saying that Hillary should gracefully step down in the presidential race (which, at this point, may not be a bad idea).

Jonathan Alter: Hillary Should Get Out Now
Clinton has only one shot–for Obama to trip up so badly that he disqualifies himself.


If Hillary Clinton wanted a graceful exit, she'd drop out now–before the March 4 Texas and Ohio primaries–and endorse Barack Obama. This would be terrible for people like me who have been dreaming of a brokered convention for decades. For selfish reasons, I want the story to stay compelling for as long as possible, which means I'm hoping for a battle into June for every last delegate and a bloody floor fight in late August in Denver. But to withdraw this week would be the best thing imaginable for Hillary's political career. She won't, of course, and for reasons that help explain why she's in so much trouble in the first place.

Withdrawing would be stupid if Hillary had a reasonable chance to win the nomination, but she doesn't. To win, she would have to do more than reverse the tide in Texas and Ohio, where polls show Obama already even or closing fast. She would have to hold off his surge, then establish her own powerful momentum within three or four days. Without a victory of 20 points or more in both states, the delegate math is forbidding. In Pennsylvania, which votes on April 22, the Clinton campaign did not even file full delegate slates. That's how sure they were of putting Obama away on Super Tuesday.

The much-ballyhooed race for superdelegates is now nearly irrelevant. Some will be needed in Denver to put Obama over the top, just as Walter Mondale had to round up a couple dozen in 1984. But these party leaders won't determine the result. At the Austin, Texas, debate last week, Hillary agreed that the process would "sort itself out" so that the will of the people would not be reversed by superdelegates. Obama has a commanding 159 lead in pledged delegates and a lead of 925,000 in the popular vote (excluding Michigan and Florida, where neither campaigned). Closing that gap would require Hillary to win all the remaining contests by crushing margins. Any takers on her chances of doing so in, say, Mississippi and North Carolina, where African-Americans play a big role?

The pundit class hasn't been quicker to point all this out because of what happened in New Hampshire. A lot of us looked foolish by all but writing Hillary off when she lost the Iowa caucuses. As we should have known, stuff happens in politics. But that was early. The stuff that would have to happen now would be on a different order of magnitude. It's time to stop overlearning the lesson of New Hampshire.

Hillary has only one shot–for Obama to trip up so badly that he disqualifies himself. Nothing in the last 14 months suggests he will. He has made plenty of small mistakes, but we're past the point where a "likable enough" comment will turn the tide. When Obama bragged in the Austin debate about how "good" his speeches were, the boast barely registered. He has brought up his game so sharply that even a head cold and losing the health-care portion of the debate on points did nothing to derail him. Hillary's Hail Mary pass–that Obama is a plagiarist–was incomplete.

So if the Clintonites were assessing with a cold eye, they would know that the odds of Hillary's looking bad on March 4 are high. Even Bill Clinton said last week that Texas and Ohio are must-win states. If she wants to stay in anyway, one way to go is to play through to June so as to give as many people as possible a chance to express their support. While this would be contrary to the long-stated wish of many Democrats (including the Clintons) to avoid a long, divisive primary season, it's perfectly defensible.
But imagine if, instead of waiting to be marginalized or forced out, Hillary decided to defy the stereotype we have of her family? Imagine if she drew a distinction between "never quit" as it applies to fighting Kenneth Starr and the Republicans on the one hand, and fellow Democrats on the other? Imagine if she had, well, the imagination for a breathtaking act of political theater that would make her seem the epitome of grace and class and party unity, setting herself up perfectly for 2012 if Obama loses?

The conventional view is that the Clintons approach power the way hard-core gun owners approach a weapon–they'll give it up only when it's wrenched from their cold, dead fingers. When I floated this idea of her quitting, Hillary aides scoffed that it would never happen. Their Pollyanna-ish assessment of the race offered a glimpse inside the bunker. These are the same loyalists who told Hillary that she was inevitable, that experience was a winning theme, that going negative in a nice state like Iowa would work, that all Super Tuesday caucus states could be written off. The Hillary who swallowed all that will never withdraw.

But in her beautiful closing answer in the Austin debate, I glimpsed a different, more genuine, almost valedictory Hillary Clinton. She talked about the real suffering of Americans and, echoing John Edwards, said, "Whatever happens, we'll be fine." She described what "an honor" it was to be in a campaign with Barack Obama, and seemed to mean it. The choice before her is to go down ugly with a serious risk of humiliation at the polls, or to go down classy, with a real chance of redemption. Why not the latter? Besides, it would wreck the spring of all her critics in the press. If she thinks of it that way, maybe it's not such an outlandish idea after all.

© 2008 Newsweek, Inc.
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by HeavenSent » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:25 pm

Thanks for the articles, ladies :) I've read each and every one of them! I'm sitting here supposed to be studying Special Populations, but I can't keep away! Did you happen to catch the latest jab? I was listening to the radio just now and caught the tail end of it>

Barack dressed in traditional Muslim garb while he visitied Africa and someone, (per Clinton's camp, it wasn't them) circulated the photo. They were said to have originated months ago, but are just now coming to light. I can't pull up the picture because my work computer restricts it, but anyone heard about that?
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by FriendinMoscow » Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:21 am

[QUOTE=HeavenSent;201994]Thanks for the articles, ladies :) I've read each and every one of them! I'm sitting here supposed to be studying Special Populations, but I can't keep away! Did you happen to catch the latest jab? I was listening to the radio just now and caught the tail end of it>

Barack dressed in traditional Muslim garb while he visitied Africa and someone, (per Clinton's camp, it wasn't them) circulated the photo. They were said to have originated months ago, but are just now coming to light. I can't pull up the picture because my work computer restricts it, but anyone heard about that?[/QUOTE]

I just started watching Countdown with Keith Olbermann, and they mentioned the Obama photo and showed it...think they're going to talk more about it soon.

What did Barack say about healthcare that pisse Hillary off so much? I can't seem to find THAT part of the story.

Okay, Olbermann just said the Clinton campaign isn't admitting to distributing to the photo but isn't denying it either, saying that they have a lot of staffers and don't know, or something like that. It's all a bit weird and depressing (because I like Hillary and think she's very talented, but this looks really bad)

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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by FriendinMoscow » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:09 am

check out this clip of Hillary mocking Barack:



I'm actually LESS offended by this than seeing it on the news, now that I see the whole thing. (the clip on the news stoppd after she made fun of him without her comments/context after) But I still think that if she took out the making fun of him and just made the points she makes here afterwards it would be a lot better....for everyone.

Honestly, with this, and the other clips others have recently posted here, I'm wondering if Barack recently privately told her there is no way he's picking her for V.P. or something. There just seems such a shift from the Austin debate...suddently she's so pissed at him and negative. Does anyone else wonder if Barack just said there's no way she's going to be his V.P.? Hell, maybe she doesn't even want to, what do I know, but there's been such a shift since the civility of Austin that it makes me wonder...

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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by Shannon » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:53 pm

[QUOTE=FriendinMoscow;202001]check out this clip of Hillary mocking Barack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwRnELfu1Ak

I don't remember what to do to make the video appear here right away....mods, feel free to change that if you can...or somebody just tell me what to do to make it appear here right away.....

I'm actually LESS offended by this than seeing it on the news, now that I see the whole thing. (the clip on the news stoppd after she made fun of him without her comments/context after) But I still think that if she took out the making fun of him and just made the points she makes here afterwards it would be a lot better....for everyone.

Honestly, with this, and the other clips others have recently posted here, I'm wondering if Barack recently privately told her there is no way he's picking her for V.P. or something. There just seems such a shift from the Austin debate...suddently she's so pissed at him and negative. Does anyone else wonder if Barack just said there's no way she's going to be his V.P.? Hell, maybe she doesn't even want to, what do I know, but there's been such a shift since the civility of Austin that it makes me wonder...[/QUOTE]

I tend to agree. Hillary does seem to have changed her tone and attitude a lot lately, and I, who have been rooting for her from the very beginning, feel it starts to get out of hand. Obama seems to handle everything so much better, he is calm, reflected, and kind of the complete opposite of Hillary. I still like her, still admire her and what she has accomplished, but right now, I tend to lean toward Obama. To start making fun of his speeches is also a bit childish I feel, and should certainly not find place in an election, at least when you are both from the same party.

I just saw the so-called infamous picture of Obama on the news too now, and to be honest, I can't really see the problem. If anything, it could have its positive effect on it as negative, in my view.

And, Evalie, to post youtube videos, just simply paste in the embed link you find on the right side below the info about the video. I suck at explaining, but yeah, hope you understood. :P
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by FriendinMoscow » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:48 pm

[QUOTE=Shannon;202003]I tend to agree. Hillary does seem to have changed her tone and attitude a lot lately, and I, who have been rooting for her from the very beginning, feel it starts to get out of hand. Obama seems to handle everything so much better, he is calm, reflected, and kind of the complete opposite of Hillary. I still like her, still admire her and what she has accomplished, but right now, I tend to lean toward Obama. To start making fun of his speeches is also a bit childish I feel, and should certainly not find place in an election, at least when you are both from the same party.

I just saw the so-called infamous picture of Obama on the news too now, and to be honest, I can't really see the problem. If anything, it could have its positive effect on it as negative, in my view.

And, Evalie, to post youtube videos, just simply paste in the embed link you find on the right side below the info about the video. I suck at explaining, but yeah, hope you understood. :P[/QUOTE]

Hey Veronica! You explained it just fine. Thankyou!....I figured it out! Take a look in the my past post and my next one. Again, thanks!

I tend to agree with everything you're saying. I DO believe the media is biased (did you all see saturday night live? if not check out clips on youtube) but Hillary is giving them plenty of material to use against her, what with the "shame on you" and making fun of Barack's speeches. She used to seem like such a good campaigner, I can't fathom her choice to make fun of "hope." Keep making her points about how she has more experience, fine, but don't make fun of hope. Even if she has a point, it's not going to sit well with people- it looks grose. I still like and admire her, I really do, but that was a really bad choice I feel.

I can't wait to watch the debate tonight! I"m tivoing it. I'm at doctors appointments all night- GAH!

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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by FriendinMoscow » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:51 pm

From Saturday Night Live: Representation of Media Bias toward Obama, Against Clinton

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/77752/ (this link gives you the whole opening scene...it's hilarious!) or for the shortened youtube version (this is more like just the second half, I recommend checking out the whole thing with the link on top)


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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by FriendinMoscow » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:58 pm

[QUOTE=Shannon;202003]
I just saw the so-called infamous picture of Obama on the news too now, and to be honest, I can't really see the problem. If anything, it could have its positive effect on it as negative, in my view.

[/QUOTE]

Of and, yeah Veronica, I don't think the picture will actually make Barack look bad at all to much of anyone, with the possible exception, I suppose, of some very very few uber rednecks who never would have voted for him to begin with. The picture just makes whoever put the picture out there look bad. I mean, so what, he goes to Africa and politely and respectively participates in customs there and we, the public, are supposed to think this is bad somehow and be racists and religous bigots and eurocentrists about it or something? No thankyou! That picture only makes the people who put it out there look bad!

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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by danaluvsmj » Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:48 pm

I did see the picture on TV during the debate, and I don't see what the big deal is. I mean, Obama has African heritage doesn't he? What's wrong with connecting to your own culture?

I just watched the debate, and I have a weird question. Obama mentioned Louis Farrakhan and how he's against his anti-semetic views, but isn't Farrakhan friends with Michael? I seem to remember when Michael did that radio interview with Jesse Jackson Michael gave a shout-out to Farrakhan. Why would Michael be friends with him if he were so anti-semetic?
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by InspirationMoonwalks » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:29 am

I totally laughed out loud when Hillary mentioned the SNL thing on the debate! She's become quite the smart ass lately, :lol That skit was pretty funny though--I liked that how, even when Obama girl is all serenading him, Barack keeps on writing on that notepad of his! haha :P

But yeah, I totally agree with what you guys have been saying. Comments like that ( her mockery of the "hope" message) just make her look even more resentful of him *which I believe she is. I mean, it's obvious that Hillary has had this dream for years and has fought hard for it and along comes this "new" guy and upstages her in so many ways..* and willing to get down in the mud if that's what it takes to get ahead (though I think it's only hurting her more..:unsure: ) She was more civil in the debate last night than I was expecting after what she said on Saturday, lol, but she still got her digs in. Though I liked how she handled that question from Tim Russert (about all his Iraq hypotheticals, that they just clearly throw out there to trip them up) and how she FINALLY fully admitted or came close to admitting her error in voting for the war. Though I also liked Barack's "Driving the bus into the ditch" analogy. I have no doubt that they are both against the war now and will bring it to an end, but again, the question comes back to judgment.

And I REALLY hope that Hillary's campaign is not the one who distributed that photo (though I agree that the 'shock' and 'outrage' over it is ridiculous and the people expressing it show their true colors in doing so). IF she did, that's really small of her. :unsure: But I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, as it was probably the same Right Wingers who harp on the middle name he can't help, spread rumors about his heritage, etc. It's more typical of their behavior..

And I agree with Evalie that the media is obviously rolling with the story of Obama's momentum, as it IS a story, and that doesn't always bode well for balancing between his and Hillary's sides but then again, Hillary has been given multiple chances for a 'come back', while other candidates would and HAVE been ruled out after showings like the ones she's had in the recent contests. Again, I just think they like this whole 'feud' going on and don't want it to end! LOL.
I just watched the debate, and I have a weird question. Obama mentioned Louis Farrakhan and how he's against his anti-semetic views, but isn't Farrakhan friends with Michael? I seem to remember when Michael did that radio interview with Jesse Jackson Michael gave a shout-out to Farrakhan. Why would Michael be friends with him if he were so anti-semetic?/


I've thought about that, too. But I think it was just mainly because Farrakhan supported him so strongly during the trial. I doubt Michael would agree with him calling Judaism or anyone's religion a 'gutter one'. And Michael also wasn't trying to win an election, :lol
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by HeavenSent » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:41 pm

danaluvsmj;202024 wrote: What's wrong with connecting to your own culture?
Right. And I also think it's more about respecting another country, period. Every diplomat and politician does that whenever they visit a foreign land. They dress in the traditional garb of their host out of respect.

All the so called leaking of this photo did is make his critics look petty and ignorant!
I just watched the debate, and I have a weird question. Obama mentioned Louis Farrakhan and how he's against his anti-semetic views, but isn't Farrakhan friends with Michael? I seem to remember when Michael did that radio interview with Jesse Jackson Michael gave a shout-out to Farrakhan. Why would Michael be friends with him if he were so anti-semetic?
Farrakhan is "friends" with A LOT of people, lol...But the thing to remember is, just because someone is connected in some way to the man doesn't mean they support their views and beliefs 100%. And that's what Tim Russert was trying to imply. Obama did a good job in trying to emphasize that the Minister's endorsement does NOT mean that the two share minds. And like Obama said, the endorsement wasn't even solicited. It's not like he went hunting for Farrakhan, he can't control, or as he put it, "censor" anyone from supporting him.

I think it's frankly INSULTING for Tim or anyone else to make that assertion and expect to "trap" Obama like that. Also, I find it curious that this only seems to happen whenever there is a prominant African American. That somehow they all think alike. Why aren't any of the other candidates asked the same question? McCain being asked about his connected to Trent Lott and the like? I hate that. Stuff like this irks me.

And who else saw what's his face....Cunningham? Up on stage before McCain's speech!? OMFG. That is one wierd AND wrapped dude. :lol How he made the arguement that he used Obama's full name because well, that's his name. C'mon. Are we that stupid? You clearly did that as a swipe, even admitting that you wanted to get the crowd fired up (which clearly he didn't, did you see everyone standing there like duds?) Why else would you need to say the names middle name 'Hussein. He knows damn well what he was trying to imply. Kudos to McCain for immediately speaking out.I do have to give him a lot of credit for that. The funniest thing to me is how Cunningham turns around and insults McCain too and pledges his allegience to Hillary now! This whole thing is ridiculous!:lol

Regarding the debate, I thought Hillary definitely could have done w/out the sarcasm and her dry humor. So not clever OR mature. She would have actually fared a lot better if she'd stuck to the issues and quit the whining about unfair treatment. Almost her entire political career she has been on easy street. If she's as tested as she wants us to believe...if she's as experienced as she says she is, this should not even be an issue! People tend to tune her out whenever she tries to make side swipes at Obama because she comes across as defensive. She made some very good points last night but overall this debate really didn't do what she needed for it to do!
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by InspirationMoonwalks » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:14 pm

Right. And I also think it's more about respecting another country, period. Every diplomat and politician does that whenever they visit a foreign land. They dress in the traditional garb of their host out of respect


Exactly. Bill Clinton, hell even George W. Bush have done the same thing, so it's really a dumb reaction for his critics on either side to have for it.



And who else saw what's his face....Cunningham? Up on stage before McCain's speech!? OMFG. That is one wierd AND wrapped dude. :lol How he made the arguement that he used Obama's full name because well, that's his name. C'mon. Are we that stupid? You clearly did that as a swipe, even admitting that you wanted to get the crowd fired up (which clearly he didn't, did you see everyone standing there like duds?) Why else would you need to say the names middle name 'Hussein. He knows damn well what he was trying to imply. Kudos to McCain for immediately speaking out.I do have to give him a lot of credit for that. The funniest thing to me is how Cunningham turns around and insults McCain too and pledges his allegience to Hillary now! This whole thing is ridiculous!:lol


Right--and today, they showed a clip of "Comedian" ( I LOVE how Olbermann always refers to him as that, LMAO :P ) Rush Limbaugh trying to make the same argument, saying somthing like "Well, that IS his name. What if the Dems went around saying 'John Sidney McCain'? Any idiot can see the obvious difference--that they are playing up the whole Islam hysteria thing and making an obvious reference to Saddam Hussein, even though names like that are actually pretty common among people of Obama's heritage and Saddam probably wasn't even a well known or at least infamous figure at the time of Obama's birth in the first place. So really, it's a petty nonissue that makes these people look even more desperate, as they KNOW that he could easily beat their candidate in the fall. McCain was indeed right to denounce it--even he appeared to be embarassed by it! :lol And what's this about that guy supporting HILLARY--was he joking? Now she can know how it feels to get support from a source you wouldn't neccessarily want! :lol

Regarding the debate, I thought Hillary definitely could have done w/out the sarcasm and her dry humor. So not clever OR mature. She would have actually fared a lot better if she'd stuck to the issues and quit the whining about unfair treatment. Almost her entire political career she has been on easy street. If she's as tested as she wants us to believe...if she's as experienced as she says she is, this should not even be an issue! People tend to tune her out whenever she tries to make side swipes at Obama because she comes across as defensive. She made some very good points last night but overall this debate really didn't do what she needed for it to do


Exactly. I mean, some of her comments, like the SNL one, can be funny from time to time, but she's really kind of overdoing it with the smartass stuff, lol. Like I said before, she's been given a lot easier time than other candidates in her political position at the moment, who would've already been written off. She's still being considered, still getting a forum. And while I'm often cynical of the press, they CAN be unfair, as we all know, she's gotten and still is getting multiple chances..
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by Shannon » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:09 pm

[QUOTE=FriendinMoscow;202021]Of and, yeah Veronica, I don't think the picture will actually make Barack look bad at all to much of anyone, with the possible exception, I suppose, of some very very few uber rednecks who never would have voted for him to begin with. The picture just makes whoever put the picture out there look bad. I mean, so what, he goes to Africa and politely and respectively participates in customs there and we, the public, are supposed to think this is bad somehow and be racists and religous bigots and eurocentrists about it or something? No thankyou! That picture only makes the people who put it out there look bad![/QUOTE]

Yeah, exactly. So what if he wore a costume that might not fit into the American everyday clothing or whatever. It is more about respect than disrespect, in my view. What if I went to Africa or Saudi Arabia or Japan or any other country with a different culture and clad myself in their national costume or religious outfit of some kind, would that make me a bad person? Would that mean I am ditching/dissing/disrespecting my own country, culture, or religion? No. It is more about respect and understanding, in my opinion.

Just my two cents worth. :P :lol
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2008 U.S Presidential Elections: The Primaries -Hillary concedes&fully endorses Obama

Post by FriendinMoscow » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:11 pm

[QUOTE=InspirationMoonwalks;202044]I totally laughed out loud when Hillary mentioned the SNL thing on the debate! QUOTE]

You laughed? Aw man, that's cool. I felt SO uncomfortable! I just thought it was a bad move for her. I mean, I agree that there has been some media bias and, as they were discussing on the view today, some of it seems to have to do with sexism. For instance, when that right wing jerk kept talking about Barack's middle name, McCain immediately denounced him, but when someone asked McCain "How do we beat the bitch?" McCain apparently said "Good question." Seems like, from a list they were reading on the view, it's more acceptable to say sexist things about a candidate than be prejudiced against a candidate in other ways.

All that said, Obama is just a more appealing candidate than Hillary in many ways, regardless of gender. Or race.

At any rate, I squirmed when Hillary made that comment because she is so obviously pissed, and she has legit reasons to be, but the debate wasn't the appropriate place to air that

But I'm glad you laughed Tara because it helps me see it in a new light!:)

But I mean really, she went to Yale Law School. Didn't anyone tell her that a fictional comedy skit show is not a legitimate source for making a point? Ofcourse they did, and she knows better. She's brilliant. But, she's pissed, and she seems to be letting that get the better of her.

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