'Abrams Report' for Jan. 22
Read the complete transcript to Thursday's show
Updated: 12:44 p.m. ET Jan. 23, 2004
Guests: Jamie Masada, William Dickerman, Michael Levine, John Burris, John Q. Kelly, Dean Johnson, Renee Baldwin, Sally Regenhard, Barry Cohen, Julia Levy
ANNOUNCER: Now THE ABRAMS REPORT. Here is Dan Abrams.
DAN ABRAMS, HOST: Hi, everyone. New information about Michael Jackson‘s accuser and it‘s coming from a close friend of his family who says that he, himself, is now getting death threats. We‘ll have an ABRAMS REPORT exclusive with the man who introduced the boy to Michael Jackson.
And prosecutors in the Scott Peterson case are challenging the new judge, saying he wouldn‘t be fair. Why?
Plus, it was a story that kept many around the country glued to their TV screens, the hunt for a Georgia killer who murdered four members of a family and then kidnapped three girls. The girls were rescued safely. Today, for the first time we hear the 911 calls for help.
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What all were your kids saying when you spoke with them today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My 4-year-old said that daddy told her the boogieman had come and killed the baby.
(END AUDIOTAPE)
ABRAMS: New word tonight about the health of Michael Jackson‘s accuser. That‘s what we‘re going to start with.
The teen cancer survivor at the center of the molestation charges against Jackson When Jackson first met the boy, doctors thought the child had only weeks to live, cancer having already taken his spleen and one kidney. Setting up the meeting, this man, comedy club owner, Jamie Masada. Masada says he was helping the boy fulfill his dream to meet his idol Michael Jackson. Today, with Jackson‘s attorneys preparing to take the offensive, Masada, who has kept in contact with the boy‘s family, spoke out just minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE MASADA, INTRODUCED ACCUSER TO JACKSON: He‘s getting a little bit better and still under his right arm–right eye still have swollen. And his kidney is in and out, so he still needs a kidney and it‘s very important for everybody to know that he does need a kidney.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Joining us now is Jamie Masada. Mr. Masada, thank you very much for coming on the program. We appreciate it.
MASADA: Thank you.
ABRAMS: So, tell us a little bit more, if you can, about how the boy is doing. There have been a lot of reports as of late that he‘s very ill. And yet then we‘re hearing from sources close to the prosecution that he‘s doing pretty well all things considered. When‘s the last time you spoke with him and his family and give us a sense of how he‘s doing.
MASADA: I saw them about a couple of days ago, and the kid is doing OK and he‘s better, much better. Before he had–still have, as I said on the press conference, that he still have some swelling under his eyes, and then hopefully he‘s–somebody from your show or somebody that would see that he need a kidney. And his blood type is O-Negative, CMV, as in Victor, negative. So, if somebody hear and they want to donate, they‘ve got to through Kidney Foundation maybe and his name is on the list. Maybe we can find him something.
ABRAMS: Is his life in danger right now?
MASADA: You know, with cancer surviving it‘s very hard to, you know, determine what‘s going to happen because of his–one point the cancer was spreading all over his lung and liver. And so, the cancer on remission and he‘s taking a lot of medicine for that. And stress could come–make it come back again. I mean, you never know about that.
(CROSSTALK)
MASADA: And hopefully, God willing, it won‘t come back.
ABRAMS: I want to ask you some more questions in a moment. Let me bring into the conversation attorney Bill Dickerman, who represented the boy and his family. Mr. Dickerman, thanks very much for coming on the program as well.
WILLIAM DICKERMAN, ACCUSER‘S FORMER ATTORNEY: Sure.
ABRAMS: There were a lot of reports quoting you from the last couple of days talking about the health of this boy saying that you thought he–his health was not good. Were those quotations accurate? Have you had a different sense than Mr. Masada as to how the boy is doing?
DICKERMAN: Well, what I‘ve heard is that he‘s at death‘s door. That‘s what I‘ve heard from the press lately, things to that effect. Those rumors are not true. I did give an interview to The Associated Press in which I stated quite frankly the truth, that was that he had had cancer, the cancer is in remission, he‘d had a spleen removed, an adrenal gland, one kidney that he‘s operating on, one malfunctioning kidney at the moment, and I don‘t know how they turned that into being at death‘s door, but he is not. He is not healthy. There‘s no question about that. But he is in no imminent threat right now. Obviously, you‘ve got to have a kidney to live and they are medicating him and if the medication works, then he‘ll be OK. And if it doesn‘t, he‘s going to need a transplant.
ABRAMS: Is he resolute in his desire to move forward with this case against Jackson?
DICKERMAN: Well, this kid is a real fighter. The whole family are fighters. They have got a great attitude and I would say there‘s no question about it that they wouldn‘t have started it in the first place unless they intended to see it through.
ABRAMS: But I‘ve got to believe that this would be a sort of shock to someone, even somebody who knew it was going to be tough that once they go through it and they realize, you know, how much scrutiny it involves, that sometimes they might back out and say, you know what, this just isn‘t worth it to our lives.
DICKERMAN: Well, one can never say what‘s going to happen, but they‘ve through an enormous amount already, the entire family, and I think they have a pretty good idea of what‘s in store. I have no doubt that the district attorney and the Sheriff‘s Department and his previous attorneys including myself have advised as to what can be expected, and he and the family seem altogether ready to confront him.
ABRAMS: Mr. Masada, do you know is the boy watching coverage of this?
Did he see, for example, Michael Jackson dancing on the SUV?
MASADA: No. As far as I know, he‘s staying out of all of the press because, again, we don‘t want him to watch any of that because, again, that kind of situation bring a lot of stress on him, so he‘s not watching any of that.
ABRAMS: And what about his family?
MASADA: His family, as far as I know, they do not watch it, but maybe sometime they watch different news or something. I do not know. But as far as I know they do not watch any of the news.
ABRAMS: Mr. Dickerman, are you confident that Mark Geragos is wrong, the attorney for Michael Jackson, when he says that this is a shakedown? His position is that these allegations are false and that this is a family that had sworn that nothing had happened and the only reason they‘re moving forward now is in the hope of a payoff at the end.
DICKERMAN: Well, unfortunately, I can‘t speak to that because the gag order that is in place arguably prevents me at this time from commenting on those sorts of things, so I‘m going to have to keep mum on that.
ABRAMS: Mr. Masada, what about you?
MASADA: Yes. What about what? I‘m sorry. I didn‘t hear.
ABRAMS: I‘m sorry. About Mark Geragos‘...
MASADA: Right.
ABRAMS: ... claims that, you know, this is a family that is only leveling these accusations against Michael Jackson in the hope of a big payday at the end of this case.
MASADA: I think that‘s wrong because of the time–first time I took them to Mr. Dickerman and I took them up there to talk to Mr. Dickerman, and Mr. Dickerman at that point asked them what do you want, the mother, if he wants the money, would have said money, and she said I want that doesn‘t happen to another kids. And that‘s–I believe what the mother says and I still believe in what the mother says.
ABRAMS: Mr. Masada, you also mentioned that you have been getting some sort of death threats as of late. Can you tell us about that?
MASADA: I‘m sorry. You have some bad connection in my ears. It‘s going in and out. I don‘t know what they‘re doing here.
ABRAMS: OK. We‘re going...
MASADA: I can‘t hear one word you said.
ABRAMS: I apologize...
MASADA: Can you repeat it again...
ABRAMS: Absolutely. Hopefully you can hear me better now. The question I had asked you was...
MASADA: OK.
ABRAMS: ... that you had talked about death threats that you had received, and I was just asking you to tell us about it.
MASADA: Well, yes, that was done, and, again, they are under investigation by police department and Santa Barbara Police Department and that‘s all I can say. But I can‘t tell you the detail of it, but, yes, it was done.
ABRAMS: Was it just one time, one person, or has this been something that‘s been ongoing?
MASADA: No. It was more than one time.
ABRAMS: Same person, though?
MASADA: Same persons.
ABRAMS: Same persons. OK. Mr. Dickerman, let me ask you a broad question. Has this all been a bigger deal, a bigger case, more scrutiny than even you expected? For example, when you spoke with your client as this started, could you, do you think, adequately describe what has become the Michael Jackson case when you were talking to them about making these accusations and moving forward?
DICKERMAN: Well, I could never have imagined quite the circus that would have resulted. Beyond that, I probably shouldn‘t say anything because of the gag order. It‘s always difficult to tell with these media cases how broad they will become, but I would say the surprises are in store for us probably every step of the way.
ABRAMS: Mr. Masada, finally, can you tell us a little bit more about your conversations with the boy? What does he talk about? What does he say to you?
MASADA: Well, the last time I saw the boy, the boy walked me–I mean, he was healthy and walked me to my car. The time I was getting into my car, he gave me a hug goodbye. He said, please find me a kidney. I need a kidney and just broke my heart. I got in the car–I started having tears in my eyes. That‘s all I can say about it.
ABRAMS: Jamie Masada and William Dickerman, thank you very much for coming on the program. We appreciate it. And Mr. Masada...
DICKERMAN: Thank you.
ABRAMS: ... I‘m assuming the authorities are going to do everything they can with regard to these death threats. So, we‘ll continue to follow it. Thanks very much.
DICKERMAN: Thank you.
MASADA: Thank you.
ABRAMS: In the wake of all this, imagine having to do public relations for Michael Jackson. With images like this as your client faces child molestation charges, where do you begin? Michael Levine faced that question back in 1993 when another boy accused Jackson of molestation. Boy, you know, we‘ve talked about a lot of cases, Mr. Levine, you and I and...
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: ... I‘ve got to believe this is one of the biggest challenges as a public relations expert.
MICHAEL LEVINE, JACKSON‘S FORMER PUBLICIST: Oh, you know, at some point you go beyond challenge into a kind of freefall “Saturday Night Live” parody. I can‘t imagine–I can‘t even think of how you could concoct a scenario that‘s more pregnant with bizarre, unpredictable possibilities than this case.
ABRAMS: And I would assume you have to be careful about the type of attacks that you wage against the boy. I mean, for example, you know Mr. Masada going public, talking about the fact that he needs a kidney and that he is doing OK, but that that‘s what he‘s focusing on. Right? I mean, that poses another challenge.
LEVINE: Oh, I think it‘s a significant challenge. Attacking young boys who have cancer generally speaking is dubious business at best.
ABRAMS: How did you deal in the first case with the accusation? What‘s the advice that you were giving broadly with regard to how to respond?
LEVINE: Look, I think there are certain things we know about the media and the culture in which we live. If you act innocent, people will perceive you being innocent. If you act guilty, people will perceive you guilty. And the best defense is an offense. And the only offense is a relentless one. You cannot–we live in a culture in which a rumor unanswered in 24 hours becomes truth. And you must be very vigorous in defending your honor or people will assume you have none.
And I think that in the case in ‘93, at least when I came aboard, we were very, very tenacious and aggressive in making sure that that side of the story got out. And absent that, there are all kinds of crazy rumors that get started, unsubstantiated stuff, and I think what happens to celebrities when they get charged is they‘re often like deer in headlights. They get very paralyzed.
ABRAMS: Michael Levine, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
LEVINE: Thanks for having me.
ABRAMS: And to Jamie Masada and William Dickerman, thanks as well.
Source: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4038656/
Read the complete transcript to Thursday's show
Updated: 12:44 p.m. ET Jan. 23, 2004
Guests: Jamie Masada, William Dickerman, Michael Levine, John Burris, John Q. Kelly, Dean Johnson, Renee Baldwin, Sally Regenhard, Barry Cohen, Julia Levy
ANNOUNCER: Now THE ABRAMS REPORT. Here is Dan Abrams.
DAN ABRAMS, HOST: Hi, everyone. New information about Michael Jackson‘s accuser and it‘s coming from a close friend of his family who says that he, himself, is now getting death threats. We‘ll have an ABRAMS REPORT exclusive with the man who introduced the boy to Michael Jackson.
And prosecutors in the Scott Peterson case are challenging the new judge, saying he wouldn‘t be fair. Why?
Plus, it was a story that kept many around the country glued to their TV screens, the hunt for a Georgia killer who murdered four members of a family and then kidnapped three girls. The girls were rescued safely. Today, for the first time we hear the 911 calls for help.
(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What all were your kids saying when you spoke with them today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My 4-year-old said that daddy told her the boogieman had come and killed the baby.
(END AUDIOTAPE)
ABRAMS: New word tonight about the health of Michael Jackson‘s accuser. That‘s what we‘re going to start with.
The teen cancer survivor at the center of the molestation charges against Jackson When Jackson first met the boy, doctors thought the child had only weeks to live, cancer having already taken his spleen and one kidney. Setting up the meeting, this man, comedy club owner, Jamie Masada. Masada says he was helping the boy fulfill his dream to meet his idol Michael Jackson. Today, with Jackson‘s attorneys preparing to take the offensive, Masada, who has kept in contact with the boy‘s family, spoke out just minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE MASADA, INTRODUCED ACCUSER TO JACKSON: He‘s getting a little bit better and still under his right arm–right eye still have swollen. And his kidney is in and out, so he still needs a kidney and it‘s very important for everybody to know that he does need a kidney.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Joining us now is Jamie Masada. Mr. Masada, thank you very much for coming on the program. We appreciate it.
MASADA: Thank you.
ABRAMS: So, tell us a little bit more, if you can, about how the boy is doing. There have been a lot of reports as of late that he‘s very ill. And yet then we‘re hearing from sources close to the prosecution that he‘s doing pretty well all things considered. When‘s the last time you spoke with him and his family and give us a sense of how he‘s doing.
MASADA: I saw them about a couple of days ago, and the kid is doing OK and he‘s better, much better. Before he had–still have, as I said on the press conference, that he still have some swelling under his eyes, and then hopefully he‘s–somebody from your show or somebody that would see that he need a kidney. And his blood type is O-Negative, CMV, as in Victor, negative. So, if somebody hear and they want to donate, they‘ve got to through Kidney Foundation maybe and his name is on the list. Maybe we can find him something.
ABRAMS: Is his life in danger right now?
MASADA: You know, with cancer surviving it‘s very hard to, you know, determine what‘s going to happen because of his–one point the cancer was spreading all over his lung and liver. And so, the cancer on remission and he‘s taking a lot of medicine for that. And stress could come–make it come back again. I mean, you never know about that.
(CROSSTALK)
MASADA: And hopefully, God willing, it won‘t come back.
ABRAMS: I want to ask you some more questions in a moment. Let me bring into the conversation attorney Bill Dickerman, who represented the boy and his family. Mr. Dickerman, thanks very much for coming on the program as well.
WILLIAM DICKERMAN, ACCUSER‘S FORMER ATTORNEY: Sure.
ABRAMS: There were a lot of reports quoting you from the last couple of days talking about the health of this boy saying that you thought he–his health was not good. Were those quotations accurate? Have you had a different sense than Mr. Masada as to how the boy is doing?
DICKERMAN: Well, what I‘ve heard is that he‘s at death‘s door. That‘s what I‘ve heard from the press lately, things to that effect. Those rumors are not true. I did give an interview to The Associated Press in which I stated quite frankly the truth, that was that he had had cancer, the cancer is in remission, he‘d had a spleen removed, an adrenal gland, one kidney that he‘s operating on, one malfunctioning kidney at the moment, and I don‘t know how they turned that into being at death‘s door, but he is not. He is not healthy. There‘s no question about that. But he is in no imminent threat right now. Obviously, you‘ve got to have a kidney to live and they are medicating him and if the medication works, then he‘ll be OK. And if it doesn‘t, he‘s going to need a transplant.
ABRAMS: Is he resolute in his desire to move forward with this case against Jackson?
DICKERMAN: Well, this kid is a real fighter. The whole family are fighters. They have got a great attitude and I would say there‘s no question about it that they wouldn‘t have started it in the first place unless they intended to see it through.
ABRAMS: But I‘ve got to believe that this would be a sort of shock to someone, even somebody who knew it was going to be tough that once they go through it and they realize, you know, how much scrutiny it involves, that sometimes they might back out and say, you know what, this just isn‘t worth it to our lives.
DICKERMAN: Well, one can never say what‘s going to happen, but they‘ve through an enormous amount already, the entire family, and I think they have a pretty good idea of what‘s in store. I have no doubt that the district attorney and the Sheriff‘s Department and his previous attorneys including myself have advised as to what can be expected, and he and the family seem altogether ready to confront him.
ABRAMS: Mr. Masada, do you know is the boy watching coverage of this?
Did he see, for example, Michael Jackson dancing on the SUV?
MASADA: No. As far as I know, he‘s staying out of all of the press because, again, we don‘t want him to watch any of that because, again, that kind of situation bring a lot of stress on him, so he‘s not watching any of that.
ABRAMS: And what about his family?
MASADA: His family, as far as I know, they do not watch it, but maybe sometime they watch different news or something. I do not know. But as far as I know they do not watch any of the news.
ABRAMS: Mr. Dickerman, are you confident that Mark Geragos is wrong, the attorney for Michael Jackson, when he says that this is a shakedown? His position is that these allegations are false and that this is a family that had sworn that nothing had happened and the only reason they‘re moving forward now is in the hope of a payoff at the end.
DICKERMAN: Well, unfortunately, I can‘t speak to that because the gag order that is in place arguably prevents me at this time from commenting on those sorts of things, so I‘m going to have to keep mum on that.
ABRAMS: Mr. Masada, what about you?
MASADA: Yes. What about what? I‘m sorry. I didn‘t hear.
ABRAMS: I‘m sorry. About Mark Geragos‘...
MASADA: Right.
ABRAMS: ... claims that, you know, this is a family that is only leveling these accusations against Michael Jackson in the hope of a big payday at the end of this case.
MASADA: I think that‘s wrong because of the time–first time I took them to Mr. Dickerman and I took them up there to talk to Mr. Dickerman, and Mr. Dickerman at that point asked them what do you want, the mother, if he wants the money, would have said money, and she said I want that doesn‘t happen to another kids. And that‘s–I believe what the mother says and I still believe in what the mother says.
ABRAMS: Mr. Masada, you also mentioned that you have been getting some sort of death threats as of late. Can you tell us about that?
MASADA: I‘m sorry. You have some bad connection in my ears. It‘s going in and out. I don‘t know what they‘re doing here.
ABRAMS: OK. We‘re going...
MASADA: I can‘t hear one word you said.
ABRAMS: I apologize...
MASADA: Can you repeat it again...
ABRAMS: Absolutely. Hopefully you can hear me better now. The question I had asked you was...
MASADA: OK.
ABRAMS: ... that you had talked about death threats that you had received, and I was just asking you to tell us about it.
MASADA: Well, yes, that was done, and, again, they are under investigation by police department and Santa Barbara Police Department and that‘s all I can say. But I can‘t tell you the detail of it, but, yes, it was done.
ABRAMS: Was it just one time, one person, or has this been something that‘s been ongoing?
MASADA: No. It was more than one time.
ABRAMS: Same person, though?
MASADA: Same persons.
ABRAMS: Same persons. OK. Mr. Dickerman, let me ask you a broad question. Has this all been a bigger deal, a bigger case, more scrutiny than even you expected? For example, when you spoke with your client as this started, could you, do you think, adequately describe what has become the Michael Jackson case when you were talking to them about making these accusations and moving forward?
DICKERMAN: Well, I could never have imagined quite the circus that would have resulted. Beyond that, I probably shouldn‘t say anything because of the gag order. It‘s always difficult to tell with these media cases how broad they will become, but I would say the surprises are in store for us probably every step of the way.
ABRAMS: Mr. Masada, finally, can you tell us a little bit more about your conversations with the boy? What does he talk about? What does he say to you?
MASADA: Well, the last time I saw the boy, the boy walked me–I mean, he was healthy and walked me to my car. The time I was getting into my car, he gave me a hug goodbye. He said, please find me a kidney. I need a kidney and just broke my heart. I got in the car–I started having tears in my eyes. That‘s all I can say about it.
ABRAMS: Jamie Masada and William Dickerman, thank you very much for coming on the program. We appreciate it. And Mr. Masada...
DICKERMAN: Thank you.
ABRAMS: ... I‘m assuming the authorities are going to do everything they can with regard to these death threats. So, we‘ll continue to follow it. Thanks very much.
DICKERMAN: Thank you.
MASADA: Thank you.
ABRAMS: In the wake of all this, imagine having to do public relations for Michael Jackson. With images like this as your client faces child molestation charges, where do you begin? Michael Levine faced that question back in 1993 when another boy accused Jackson of molestation. Boy, you know, we‘ve talked about a lot of cases, Mr. Levine, you and I and...
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: ... I‘ve got to believe this is one of the biggest challenges as a public relations expert.
MICHAEL LEVINE, JACKSON‘S FORMER PUBLICIST: Oh, you know, at some point you go beyond challenge into a kind of freefall “Saturday Night Live” parody. I can‘t imagine–I can‘t even think of how you could concoct a scenario that‘s more pregnant with bizarre, unpredictable possibilities than this case.
ABRAMS: And I would assume you have to be careful about the type of attacks that you wage against the boy. I mean, for example, you know Mr. Masada going public, talking about the fact that he needs a kidney and that he is doing OK, but that that‘s what he‘s focusing on. Right? I mean, that poses another challenge.
LEVINE: Oh, I think it‘s a significant challenge. Attacking young boys who have cancer generally speaking is dubious business at best.
ABRAMS: How did you deal in the first case with the accusation? What‘s the advice that you were giving broadly with regard to how to respond?
LEVINE: Look, I think there are certain things we know about the media and the culture in which we live. If you act innocent, people will perceive you being innocent. If you act guilty, people will perceive you guilty. And the best defense is an offense. And the only offense is a relentless one. You cannot–we live in a culture in which a rumor unanswered in 24 hours becomes truth. And you must be very vigorous in defending your honor or people will assume you have none.
And I think that in the case in ‘93, at least when I came aboard, we were very, very tenacious and aggressive in making sure that that side of the story got out. And absent that, there are all kinds of crazy rumors that get started, unsubstantiated stuff, and I think what happens to celebrities when they get charged is they‘re often like deer in headlights. They get very paralyzed.
ABRAMS: Michael Levine, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
LEVINE: Thanks for having me.
ABRAMS: And to Jamie Masada and William Dickerman, thanks as well.
Source: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4038656/