The Abrams Report for August 24, 2004 - Transcript
Wednesday, 25 August 2004
ABRAMS: California Attorney General‘s Office conducted an investigation into the abuse. Their report released last week showed there was no indication Jackson was injured at the hands of police and today Sheriff Jim Anderson spoke about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The findings of the Attorney General‘s investigation have provided a clear vindication of our personnel who were involved in the arrest and booking of Mr. Jackson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Jackson‘s defense team has called the Attorney General‘s investigation–quote–“nothing but a scam and a sham from the start”–end quote propaganda. Also in the case, the judge ruled that District Attorney Tom Sneddon did not violate the gag order when he spoke about the case at a district attorney‘s conference in Vancouver. The defense found out about Sneddon‘s remarks from a report on this program.
Joining me now to discuss this latest development in the case is former Santa Barbara sheriff and NBC analyst Jim Thomas and attorneys Mickey Sherman and Bill Fallon.
All right, Jim Thomas, no big surprise here, right?
JIM THOMAS, FMR. SANTA BARBARA COUNTY SHERIFF: No. I don‘t think anybody out there really believed that Michael Jackson was mishandled especially after the tapes came out with Jim Anderson‘s news conference. Also of Michael Jackson hoisting himself up on top of that SUV at court I think dispelled any doubts that there were.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Mickey Sherman...
SHERMAN: No one said...
ABRAMS: Mickey Sherman, let me read to you–hang on Mickey. Let me read to you from the Attorney General‘s report. It said all witnesses who observed Mr. Jackson immediately after booking did not report any complaints or mistreatment from Mr. Jackson nor did they note any outward displays of discomfort during their observation of him. There‘s no record of medical assistance being summoned to treat Mr. Jackson following the booking process. And then, again, you know, Mickey, he didn‘t file a formal complaint...
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: ... at all.
SHERMAN: Can you imagine what–the money they would have spent on investigating this if he filed a formal complaint? No wonder California is broke. A hundred and sixty-three witnesses, 2,500 man-hours investigating someone who didn‘t make a complaint, I mean that‘s kind of persuasive to me that they‘re so darn defensive about this. He‘s not saying he was beaten up in a small room, only that somebody treated him a little bit roughly and he got a bad mark.
FALLON: Oh Mickey, he‘s on TV. He‘s bashing them. I can‘t even believe it. Remember the little motion he made...
(CROSSTALK)
FALLON: ... I can barely move and then he fixes his wig for God‘s sake.
SHERMAN: So that excuses them for spending this kind of money?
FALLON: Well no, I think they had to spend it. Because even though it was a little pretextual thing he filed a complaint...
SHERMAN: Yes.
FALLON: I‘m telling you when it goes to trial, when he takes the stand since he said Sneddon and the whole prosecution is in–and I don‘t like Sneddon but they‘re all against...
SHERMAN: This ain‘t coming into trial.
FALLON: ... this is going to bite...
SHERMAN: This is not coming...
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: ... and to spend this kind of effort and manpower...
FALLON: His allegations are going to come in and they‘re going to be disproven if he takes a stand.
ABRAMS: Go ahead Mickey.
SHERMAN: If he wanted to go after them he would have sued them. And if the Attorney General and if the D.A. and everybody else in the Sheriff‘s Department had any brains...
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: ... they would say fine...
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: You know, you think you were manhandled sue us. Other than that let‘s get on to the next case.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Jim Thomas, what about that? Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Jim Thomas, what about the idea that this was kind of a waste of money to do this investigation since Jackson never filed a formal complaint.
THOMAS: Well it wasn‘t Mickey‘s law firm they complained about. I can tell you that the sheriff and his department here really don‘t like to be maligned, you know, in the world saying that they mishandle their prisoners. I think it was important to be done. If the sheriff had done it himself they would have claimed white wash. So he asked the Attorney General if he was going to do it. He did it right and that‘s what he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whitewash seems...
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Hang on one sec.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Jim, what do you make of the claim very quickly that the A.G. and the prosecutors are all in bed together and as a result this isn‘t exactly an independent investigation.
THOMAS: Well I know the sheriff and I know the A.G. I know they‘re not in bed together. The A.G. is a very independent elected official of the state of California and he‘s going to do his job...
ABRAMS: Yes.
THOMAS: ... regardless of what the sheriff said. So, I think...
(CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: ... they did what was needed to be done.
ABRAMS: Yes. This was going to be a tough one. I mean you know you see Jackson waving and this and that and climbing up on the car and you know the whole business.
All right. Jim Thomas, Mickey Sherman and Bill Fallon, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5818561/
Wednesday, 25 August 2004
ABRAMS: California Attorney General‘s Office conducted an investigation into the abuse. Their report released last week showed there was no indication Jackson was injured at the hands of police and today Sheriff Jim Anderson spoke about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The findings of the Attorney General‘s investigation have provided a clear vindication of our personnel who were involved in the arrest and booking of Mr. Jackson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Jackson‘s defense team has called the Attorney General‘s investigation–quote–“nothing but a scam and a sham from the start”–end quote propaganda. Also in the case, the judge ruled that District Attorney Tom Sneddon did not violate the gag order when he spoke about the case at a district attorney‘s conference in Vancouver. The defense found out about Sneddon‘s remarks from a report on this program.
Joining me now to discuss this latest development in the case is former Santa Barbara sheriff and NBC analyst Jim Thomas and attorneys Mickey Sherman and Bill Fallon.
All right, Jim Thomas, no big surprise here, right?
JIM THOMAS, FMR. SANTA BARBARA COUNTY SHERIFF: No. I don‘t think anybody out there really believed that Michael Jackson was mishandled especially after the tapes came out with Jim Anderson‘s news conference. Also of Michael Jackson hoisting himself up on top of that SUV at court I think dispelled any doubts that there were.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Mickey Sherman...
SHERMAN: No one said...
ABRAMS: Mickey Sherman, let me read to you–hang on Mickey. Let me read to you from the Attorney General‘s report. It said all witnesses who observed Mr. Jackson immediately after booking did not report any complaints or mistreatment from Mr. Jackson nor did they note any outward displays of discomfort during their observation of him. There‘s no record of medical assistance being summoned to treat Mr. Jackson following the booking process. And then, again, you know, Mickey, he didn‘t file a formal complaint...
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: ... at all.
SHERMAN: Can you imagine what–the money they would have spent on investigating this if he filed a formal complaint? No wonder California is broke. A hundred and sixty-three witnesses, 2,500 man-hours investigating someone who didn‘t make a complaint, I mean that‘s kind of persuasive to me that they‘re so darn defensive about this. He‘s not saying he was beaten up in a small room, only that somebody treated him a little bit roughly and he got a bad mark.
FALLON: Oh Mickey, he‘s on TV. He‘s bashing them. I can‘t even believe it. Remember the little motion he made...
(CROSSTALK)
FALLON: ... I can barely move and then he fixes his wig for God‘s sake.
SHERMAN: So that excuses them for spending this kind of money?
FALLON: Well no, I think they had to spend it. Because even though it was a little pretextual thing he filed a complaint...
SHERMAN: Yes.
FALLON: I‘m telling you when it goes to trial, when he takes the stand since he said Sneddon and the whole prosecution is in–and I don‘t like Sneddon but they‘re all against...
SHERMAN: This ain‘t coming into trial.
FALLON: ... this is going to bite...
SHERMAN: This is not coming...
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: ... and to spend this kind of effort and manpower...
FALLON: His allegations are going to come in and they‘re going to be disproven if he takes a stand.
ABRAMS: Go ahead Mickey.
SHERMAN: If he wanted to go after them he would have sued them. And if the Attorney General and if the D.A. and everybody else in the Sheriff‘s Department had any brains...
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: ... they would say fine...
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: You know, you think you were manhandled sue us. Other than that let‘s get on to the next case.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Jim Thomas, what about that? Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Jim Thomas, what about the idea that this was kind of a waste of money to do this investigation since Jackson never filed a formal complaint.
THOMAS: Well it wasn‘t Mickey‘s law firm they complained about. I can tell you that the sheriff and his department here really don‘t like to be maligned, you know, in the world saying that they mishandle their prisoners. I think it was important to be done. If the sheriff had done it himself they would have claimed white wash. So he asked the Attorney General if he was going to do it. He did it right and that‘s what he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whitewash seems...
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Hang on one sec.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: Jim, what do you make of the claim very quickly that the A.G. and the prosecutors are all in bed together and as a result this isn‘t exactly an independent investigation.
THOMAS: Well I know the sheriff and I know the A.G. I know they‘re not in bed together. The A.G. is a very independent elected official of the state of California and he‘s going to do his job...
ABRAMS: Yes.
THOMAS: ... regardless of what the sheriff said. So, I think...
(CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: ... they did what was needed to be done.
ABRAMS: Yes. This was going to be a tough one. I mean you know you see Jackson waving and this and that and climbing up on the car and you know the whole business.
All right. Jim Thomas, Mickey Sherman and Bill Fallon, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5818561/