5540
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. MESEREAU:
7 Q. Good morning, Mr. Jones.
8 A. Good morning.
9 Q. My name is Tom Mesereau and I speak for
10 Michael Jackson.
11 A. Sure.
12 Q. We haven't met before, right?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Okay. The prosecutor referred to an
15 interview that you had with Sergeant Steve Robel and
16 another officer on April 7th, 2005.
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. Do you remember that?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And do you remember you were asked by an
21 officer, "Um, did you see Mr Jackson engage in any
22 head licking in the World Music Awards?" And your
23 answer was, "No, no, no," right?
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. And then you were asked, "Um, did you see
26 Mr. Jackson engage in any head licking of anybody?"
27 And your answer was, "Never." Remember that?
28 A. I recall.
5541
1 Q. Okay. And what you were not -- when you
2 were dealing with your co-writer and publisher, you
3 were not under oath, were you?
4 A. No.
5 Q. And of course today you are, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; argumentative.
8 THE COURT: Overruled. Next question. He
9 answered that.
10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The reality is, Mr. Jones,
11 you have repeatedly said you don't recall seeing
12 head licking on the plane, right?
13 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; misstates the
14 evidence.
15 THE COURT: Sustained.
16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You don't recall seeing
17 head licking by Michael on the plane with Jordie, do
18 you?
19 A. I said it, but it was in the -- it appeared
20 in an e-mail. I said I did not recall seeing it,
21 but it -- apparently so, because it appeared in an
22 e-mail that came from my machine.
23 Q. Well, in response to the prosecutor's
24 questions, you said you had reservations about that
25 statement --
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. -- correct?
28 And what are your reservations about that
5542
1 statement?
2 A. That I just don't recall exactly seeing
3 that. I truly don't.
4 Q. And would you agree when you're working with
5 a co-writer and a publisher to prepare a book about
6 Michael Jackson, there's pressure to make things
7 sensational when you can, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And your publisher and others want a book
10 that can sell, correct?
11 A. My co-writer. The publisher wasn't involved
12 in that particular end of it.
13 Q. Okay. And certainly, having worked with
14 Michael all those years, you've seen numerous
15 attempts by numerous people to sensationalize
16 aspects of Michael's life, right?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And if you're writing a book about Michael,
19 there certainly is always a temptation to
20 sensationalize if you don't watch yourself, right?
21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; argumentative.
22 THE COURT: Sustained.
23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: How is the book being
24 written?
25 A. Well, I don't quite understand what
26 you're --
27 Q. Let me rephrase it. It's probably a poor
28 question.
5543
1 You have a co-writer?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. Did your co-writer ever work for Michael
4 Jackson?
5 A. No, but my co-writer knows the family.
6 Q. Okay. And you're both trying to prepare a
7 book about your observations and experiences in the
8 past, right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And the prosecutor asked you some questions
11 about what stage it's in, right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And is there considerably more editing
14 required?
15 A. Most definitely.
16 Q. And is it a long ways from being published
17 as far as you're concerned?
18 A. As far as I am concerned, and I'm supposed
19 to have final approval.
20 Q. And when you have a co-writer on a book like
21 that -- actually, let me make it more direct.
22 Does your co-writer have responsibility for
23 preparing drafts that you have to then review for
24 accuracy?
25 A. That is correct.
26 Q. Okay. And is it -- would it be appropriate
27 to say that what the prosecutor showed you has not
28 been approved for accuracy?
5544
1 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I'm going to object to any
2 further leading of this particular witness, Your
3 Honor.
4 THE COURT: Overruled.
5 You may answer. Do you want the question
6 read back?
7 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat the question,
8 please?
9 THE COURT: I'll have the court reporter read
10 it back.
11 (Record read.)
12 THE COURT: Are you talking about Exhibit
13 803, Counsel, or not?
14 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: You need to show it to him,
16 because he's been shown three exhibits.
17 MR. MESEREAU: I don't know -- are the
18 exhibits in front of you, Mr. Jones?
19 THE WITNESS: Exhibits? I don't have
20 anything.
21 THE COURT: They're not up there.
22 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?
23 THE COURT: You may.
24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Jones, I'm showing you
25 what has been marked as Exhibit No. 803, okay? Do
26 you see that?
27 A. Uh-huh.
28 Q. That starts off with a title that you said
5545
1 is not accurate and has not been approved, correct?
2 A. That is correct.
3 Q. And you told the prosecutor you had written
4 the words at the bottom of the page that refer to
5 licking, right?
6 A. Uh-huh.
7 Q. And is it your testimony that you have not
8 approved the accuracy of that statement?
9 A. That is correct.
10 Q. Okay. Now, the prosecutor showed you an
11 e-mail that you indicated you think you sent; is
12 that correct?
13 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; misstates the
14 evidence.
15 THE COURT: Overruled.
16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you see that?
17 A. Personally I don't think this is in the
18 book, this statement.
19 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I'll object as
20 nonresponsive.
21 THE COURT: I guess it's without -- his
22 answer shows me it's without foundation. So do you
23 want to ask a foundational question on that?
24 MR. MESEREAU: Yes.
25 Q. Mr. -- well, let me just show you. I'm
26 looking now at Exhibit 805, okay? And that's the
27 e-mail the prosecutor referred to.
28 A. Uh-huh.
5546
1 Q. And I think you said you believe you sent
2 the e-mail; is that right?
3 A. Uh-huh.
4 Q. And are the words in that e-mail accurate as
5 far as you're concerned?
6 A. Perhaps they are.
7 Q. You don't know?
8 A. Because I wrote -- if it came from my e-mail
9 address, I had to write it.
10 Q. Okay. And -- but you don't know for sure?
11 A. No.
12 Q. And are the words on that e-mail words you
13 intend to include in your book?
14 A. Not like that. My -- my co-writer is
15 handling that, and I have tried to change certain
16 things in the way things were said on numerous
17 occasions with him.
18 Q. Would it be accurate to say that neither
19 Exhibit 803 nor Exhibit 805 are accurate as far as
20 you're concerned?
21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; misstates the
22 evidence --
23 THE COURT: Overruled.
24 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: -- as far as to 803.
25 THE COURT: Overruled.
26 You may answer.
27 THE WITNESS: Well, I don't know which
28 one -- you got three different things there, don't
5547
1 you?
2 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.
3 May I approach, Your Honor?
4 THE COURT: Yeah.
5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Showing you Exhibit 803
6 and Exhibit 805, okay?
7 A. This is three. This is five.
8 Q. Yes. Okay? Let's talk about 803. You've
9 already indicated the title -- what purports to be
10 the title is not going to be the title of your book,
11 right?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. And you've already indicated that the bottom
14 paragraph that you say you wrote is not accurate; is
15 that correct?
16 A. Uh-huh. This I wrote.
17 Q. Yes.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. But you're indicating it's not accurate,
20 true?
21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; misstates the
22 evidence.
23 THE COURT: Overruled.
24 You may answer.
25 THE WITNESS: Not completely true as far as
26 I'm concerned.
27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's look at the
28 next exhibit, which is Exhibit No. 805. Do you see
5548
1 that?
2 A. Yes. This -- this one is true. I'm sorry.
3 Yes. I'm sorry.
4 Q. And you wrote that e-mail, correct?
5 A. Yes. Yes.
6 Q. And what you said in the e-mail was, in
7 summary, that you might -- and correct me if I'm
8 wrong, that you thought your knowledge of the
9 Chandlers might be an insurance policy for you?
10 A. Uh-huh.
11 Q. Correct?
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. An insurance policy of employment, right?
14 A. Uh-huh.
15 Q. And what that means is, "I might try and
16 hold over Michael's head what I could say about the
17 Chandlers," right?
18 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I'm going to object to
19 counsel ascribing any meaning to those words.
20 THE COURT: Sustained.
21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: What did you mean by
22 "insurance policy of employment"?
23 A. Well, I was not -- I did not have a
24 confidentiality agreement.
25 Q. Okay.
26 A. That's what I -- that's what I basically
27 meant.
28 Q. And did you also mean that, "Because I've
5549
1 spent all these years with Michael, that I could
2 almost use as a threat writing an expose of him if
3 I'm not employed by him"?
4 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Same objection. And
5 argumentative.
6 THE COURT: Overruled.
7 You may answer.
8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Is that sort of what it
9 means?
10 A. No, not really, because I have never -- I
11 have never sued, I have never sold stories. I have
12 never -- in the 16 and a half years, I've never
13 attempted to extort in any manner.
14 Q. And I'm not saying you did. I'm just asking
15 you --
16 A. No, no, I did not mean it in that respect.
17 Q. Okay. Now, when did you say your work was
18 terminated?
19 A. June 9th, 2004.
20 Q. Okay. And where was your office at the
21 time?
22 A. In my home.
23 Q. You indicated in response to the
24 prosecutor's question that you didn't see Michael
25 very often, right?
26 A. No.
27 Q. And why was that?
28 A. This was -- this was Michael Jackson's modus
5550
1 operandi from the very beginning. I saw Michael
2 mostly if we were on a tour that my presence -- if I
3 may explain. I have worked in the entertainment
4 industry prior to working with Michael Jackson for
5 17 and a half years, and I know familiarity breeds
6 contempt. And the further you stay away from
7 artists, the better off you are.
8 Q. And for that reason, did you not go to
9 Neverland very much?
10 A. I went to Neverland when I brought groups
11 up, such as the Challengers Boys & Girls Club. Such
12 as the First AME Church, et cetera. I was not a
13 regular visitor at Neverland at all.
14 Q. Now, who was the first group that you
15 mentioned that you brought?
16 A. The Challengers Boys --
17 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Relevance;
18 beyond the scope.
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In a typical year, while
21 you were employed, how often would you visit
22 Neverland?
23 A. I haven't been to Neverland in years. My
24 visits to Neverland were on a more frequent basis
25 about five years ago when I was able to get groups
26 approved to go to Neverland.
27 Q. Okay. And you had an office located where?
28 A. Before we closed the offices, we were at
5551
1 9255 Sunset Boulevard.
2 Q. Okay. And how many years did you spend in
3 that office?
4 A. I think we were there approximately ten
5 years, I think. I cannot be for certain.
6 Q. Okay. Now, you indicated at the music
7 awards, the World Music Awards, that at one point
8 you saw Jordie on Michael Jackson's lap and his
9 sister on Michael Jackson's lap together, right?
10 A. That is correct.
11 Q. Okay. And where was Michael Jackson sitting
12 in that event?
13 A. He was seated on the front row next to
14 Prince Albert of Monaco, and -- on one side, and
15 Linda Evans, the actress, on the other side.
16 And I attempted to get -- I had arranged for
17 the Chandlers to sit directly behind Mr. Jackson,
18 because I did not feel that the royalty wanted to be
19 bothered with those guests. But he insisted that
20 they sit with him, so I left it alone.
21 Q. Did the mother sit with Michael Jackson as
22 well?
23 A. Behind.
24 Q. Okay. So when you saw the brother and
25 sister sitting on Michael Jackson's lap in the first
26 row, the mother was right behind, correct?
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. So this is the first row in full view of
5552
1 everyone at the awards show, correct?
2 A. That is correct.
3 Q. There was no effort to hide anything at any
4 time?
5 A. No.
6 Q. At some point, did you see the children with
7 their mother behind where Michael Jackson was
8 sitting?
9 A. When I brought them in to their seats, they
10 were seated behind Mr. Jackson. Mr. Jackson moved
11 them up front.
12 Q. Okay. Did -- when you say he moved them up
13 front, did he move them into seats up front?
14 A. He moved them into his seat.
15 Q. Okay. Okay. So the children moved into his
16 seat to sit with him?
17 A. With him.
18 Q. And the mother still stayed sitting behind?
19 A. That is correct.
20 Q. And at some point did you see the children
21 go back with their mother or did they always stay
22 with Michael?
23 A. No, they stayed up there.
24 Q. And I think at one point you saw Jordie
25 still sitting on Michael's lap, and Jordie's sister
26 sitting on Linda Evans' lap?
27 A. That is correct.
28 Q. Please tell the jury what the World Music
5553
1 Awards show is.
2 A. The World Music Awards show is a show that's
3 given annually in Monte Carlo for the best record
4 sales in -- the best worldwide record sales.
5 I had arranged for Mr. Jackson to be honored
6 by the World Music Awards, and -- because of his
7 record sales. And we had gone there for that
8 particular purpose, for him to be honored by the
9 World Music Awards. And to be seen around the
10 world. And I attempted, because perception is 90
11 percent of what the public thinks, to get those
12 people off of his lap.
13 Q. Did the Chandler family seem to remain
14 during the entire show sitting with Michael?
15 A. Oh, of course. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Now, you -- how did you get to
17 Monaco?
18 A. We flew.
19 Q. Did you -- fly from where?
20 A. Los Angeles.
21 Q. Okay. And were there other stops on that
22 trip?
23 A. To Paris. We flew from Los Angeles to
24 Paris, and Paris to Nice, and we helicoptered to
25 Monte Carlo.
26 Q. Okay. Do you recall attending any other
27 events with Mr. Jackson on the trip to Monaco?
28 A. Of course, His Royal Highness Prince Albert
5554
1 hosted a reception for visiting dignitaries, and I
2 was -- he had an event -- when you go there, they
3 have an event each night for visiting dignitaries.
4 And there was only one event that Mr. Jackson
5 attended.
6 Q. And do you recall whether or not the
7 Chandler family were at that event?
8 A. They were with him.
9 Q. And that was because Michael insisted that
10 the Chandler family go?
11 A. I don't know whether he insisted whether
12 they attend or not.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. But all of his guests were invited.
15 Q. Okay. Were there any other guests of
16 Michael Jackson that you haven't named?
17 A. No, just the Chandler family.
18 Q. Okay. Now, did you begin writing your book
19 after your employment ended?
20 A. I had made notes on certain things. Yes,
21 the actual beginning of the writing of the book
22 started after my employment ended, yes.
23 Q. And has there been an effort by you or your
24 co-writer to market the book overseas?
25 A. Well, I would imagine that the publisher
26 has.
27 Q. Has there been an attempt to market it in
28 the United States?
5555
1 A. I would imagine that the publisher has.
2 Q. Okay. And who is in charge of that issue?
3 A. My co-writer.
4 Q. Okay. Now, do you typically meet with your
5 co-writer periodically?
6 A. We talk on the phone. That's -- that's
7 perhaps one of the reasons there is some confusion,
8 because our -- he's based in New York and I'm based
9 in Los Angeles.
10 Q. Okay. And do you sort of fax or e-mail
11 manuscripts to one another?
12 A. We e-mail.
13 Q. Okay. And do you then typically correct or
14 change what you think is either inaccurate or
15 inappropriate?
16 A. Oh, I've changed millions of things that
17 were inaccurate that I didn't say.
18 Q. And how far away from having a product that
19 you think is accurate and complete are you?
20 A. I would say six to eight weeks.
21 Q. Okay. Have you come up with a date during
22 which you intend to announce the availability of the
23 book?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Okay. Do you remember in your interview on
26 April 7th, 2005, a police officer asking you about
27 whether or not there was any licking on the plane by
28 Michael, and you said, "I just don't remember and I
5556
1 would be lying to say that I did"?
2 A. Of course I recall saying that.
3 Q. And that was the truth, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Now, on the plane coming back, do you
6 remember where Jordie's mother June was seated?
7 A. Sure.
8 Q. Where was she seated?
9 A. We were all in first class, and on one side
10 of the rear of first class was Michael and Jordie
11 Chandler. On the total opposite side was June
12 Chandler and her daughter.
13 Q. Certainly June and her daughter were in a
14 position to observe Michael and Jordie, correct?
15 A. That is correct.
16 Q. So they were seated parallel to one another?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Nothing that went on was hidden from
19 anybody, correct?
20 A. No.
21 Q. And where were you seated in relation --
22 A. I was seated at least two front -- two rows
23 ahead of them.
24 Q. How many times have you been contacted by
25 any representative of the sheriffs or police
26 department in this case?
27 A. Well, I was contacted prior to my
28 registration -- I mean, my being served with a
5557
1 subpoena. And at one point, a Richard Steingard, I
2 approached him about representation because he had
3 represented me before in this case, and then he came
4 back and said that he could not represent me any
5 longer. And that's when Attorney Sachs was
6 contacted. So I had been -- they attempted to serve
7 a subpoena to me, and at that time I did accept the
8 subpoena at Richard Steingard's office, and
9 following which he informed me that he could no
10 longer represent me.
11 Q. Have you ever spoken to any prosecutor for
12 the government in this case directly?
13 A. Who do you mean, the government?
14 Q. These people. The prosecutors.
15 A. Certainly. I've -- Mr. Auchincloss and
16 Steve Robel.
17 Q. When did you last meet with Mr. Auchincloss?
18 A. I met with him on Friday when I was told to
19 go home and come back.
20 Q. Okay. And did you meet with him before
21 that?
22 A. Of course. You mentioned an April date that
23 Mr. Auchincloss had me to come up.
24 Q. Okay. Was that April 7th?
25 A. I guess, sir. I don't -- I'm not good with
26 dates, so --
27 Q. You had an interview with Sergeant Steve
28 Robel, right?
5558
1 A. And Mr. Auchincloss.
2 Q. Okay. How many meetings did you have with
3 Sergeant Robel, if you know?
4 A. I only met Sergeant Robel when I was with
5 Mr. Auchincloss. I met them both at the same time.
6 Q. Okay. So when you said, "I just don't
7 remember and I would be lying to say that I did,"
8 about head licking, Mr. Auchincloss was right there,
9 right?
10 A. We were -- we were there, yes, we were --
11 the three of us were in the room.
12 Q. So he clearly heard you say that, correct?
13 A. Mr. Auchincloss was in the room with Mr.
14 Robel.
15 Q. And he tried to misquote you in court today,
16 correct?
17 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. This is
18 argumentative; improper.
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20 MR. MESEREAU: No further questions, Your
21 Honor.
5 CROSS-EXAMINATION
6 BY MR. MESEREAU:
7 Q. Good morning, Mr. Jones.
8 A. Good morning.
9 Q. My name is Tom Mesereau and I speak for
10 Michael Jackson.
11 A. Sure.
12 Q. We haven't met before, right?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Okay. The prosecutor referred to an
15 interview that you had with Sergeant Steve Robel and
16 another officer on April 7th, 2005.
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. Do you remember that?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And do you remember you were asked by an
21 officer, "Um, did you see Mr Jackson engage in any
22 head licking in the World Music Awards?" And your
23 answer was, "No, no, no," right?
24 A. Uh-huh.
25 Q. And then you were asked, "Um, did you see
26 Mr. Jackson engage in any head licking of anybody?"
27 And your answer was, "Never." Remember that?
28 A. I recall.
5541
1 Q. Okay. And what you were not -- when you
2 were dealing with your co-writer and publisher, you
3 were not under oath, were you?
4 A. No.
5 Q. And of course today you are, right?
6 A. Yes.
7 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; argumentative.
8 THE COURT: Overruled. Next question. He
9 answered that.
10 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: The reality is, Mr. Jones,
11 you have repeatedly said you don't recall seeing
12 head licking on the plane, right?
13 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; misstates the
14 evidence.
15 THE COURT: Sustained.
16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You don't recall seeing
17 head licking by Michael on the plane with Jordie, do
18 you?
19 A. I said it, but it was in the -- it appeared
20 in an e-mail. I said I did not recall seeing it,
21 but it -- apparently so, because it appeared in an
22 e-mail that came from my machine.
23 Q. Well, in response to the prosecutor's
24 questions, you said you had reservations about that
25 statement --
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. -- correct?
28 And what are your reservations about that
5542
1 statement?
2 A. That I just don't recall exactly seeing
3 that. I truly don't.
4 Q. And would you agree when you're working with
5 a co-writer and a publisher to prepare a book about
6 Michael Jackson, there's pressure to make things
7 sensational when you can, right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And your publisher and others want a book
10 that can sell, correct?
11 A. My co-writer. The publisher wasn't involved
12 in that particular end of it.
13 Q. Okay. And certainly, having worked with
14 Michael all those years, you've seen numerous
15 attempts by numerous people to sensationalize
16 aspects of Michael's life, right?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And if you're writing a book about Michael,
19 there certainly is always a temptation to
20 sensationalize if you don't watch yourself, right?
21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; argumentative.
22 THE COURT: Sustained.
23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: How is the book being
24 written?
25 A. Well, I don't quite understand what
26 you're --
27 Q. Let me rephrase it. It's probably a poor
28 question.
5543
1 You have a co-writer?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. Did your co-writer ever work for Michael
4 Jackson?
5 A. No, but my co-writer knows the family.
6 Q. Okay. And you're both trying to prepare a
7 book about your observations and experiences in the
8 past, right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And the prosecutor asked you some questions
11 about what stage it's in, right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And is there considerably more editing
14 required?
15 A. Most definitely.
16 Q. And is it a long ways from being published
17 as far as you're concerned?
18 A. As far as I am concerned, and I'm supposed
19 to have final approval.
20 Q. And when you have a co-writer on a book like
21 that -- actually, let me make it more direct.
22 Does your co-writer have responsibility for
23 preparing drafts that you have to then review for
24 accuracy?
25 A. That is correct.
26 Q. Okay. And is it -- would it be appropriate
27 to say that what the prosecutor showed you has not
28 been approved for accuracy?
5544
1 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I'm going to object to any
2 further leading of this particular witness, Your
3 Honor.
4 THE COURT: Overruled.
5 You may answer. Do you want the question
6 read back?
7 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat the question,
8 please?
9 THE COURT: I'll have the court reporter read
10 it back.
11 (Record read.)
12 THE COURT: Are you talking about Exhibit
13 803, Counsel, or not?
14 MR. MESEREAU: Yes, Your Honor.
15 THE COURT: You need to show it to him,
16 because he's been shown three exhibits.
17 MR. MESEREAU: I don't know -- are the
18 exhibits in front of you, Mr. Jones?
19 THE WITNESS: Exhibits? I don't have
20 anything.
21 THE COURT: They're not up there.
22 MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?
23 THE COURT: You may.
24 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Mr. Jones, I'm showing you
25 what has been marked as Exhibit No. 803, okay? Do
26 you see that?
27 A. Uh-huh.
28 Q. That starts off with a title that you said
5545
1 is not accurate and has not been approved, correct?
2 A. That is correct.
3 Q. And you told the prosecutor you had written
4 the words at the bottom of the page that refer to
5 licking, right?
6 A. Uh-huh.
7 Q. And is it your testimony that you have not
8 approved the accuracy of that statement?
9 A. That is correct.
10 Q. Okay. Now, the prosecutor showed you an
11 e-mail that you indicated you think you sent; is
12 that correct?
13 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; misstates the
14 evidence.
15 THE COURT: Overruled.
16 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Do you see that?
17 A. Personally I don't think this is in the
18 book, this statement.
19 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I'll object as
20 nonresponsive.
21 THE COURT: I guess it's without -- his
22 answer shows me it's without foundation. So do you
23 want to ask a foundational question on that?
24 MR. MESEREAU: Yes.
25 Q. Mr. -- well, let me just show you. I'm
26 looking now at Exhibit 805, okay? And that's the
27 e-mail the prosecutor referred to.
28 A. Uh-huh.
5546
1 Q. And I think you said you believe you sent
2 the e-mail; is that right?
3 A. Uh-huh.
4 Q. And are the words in that e-mail accurate as
5 far as you're concerned?
6 A. Perhaps they are.
7 Q. You don't know?
8 A. Because I wrote -- if it came from my e-mail
9 address, I had to write it.
10 Q. Okay. And -- but you don't know for sure?
11 A. No.
12 Q. And are the words on that e-mail words you
13 intend to include in your book?
14 A. Not like that. My -- my co-writer is
15 handling that, and I have tried to change certain
16 things in the way things were said on numerous
17 occasions with him.
18 Q. Would it be accurate to say that neither
19 Exhibit 803 nor Exhibit 805 are accurate as far as
20 you're concerned?
21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; misstates the
22 evidence --
23 THE COURT: Overruled.
24 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: -- as far as to 803.
25 THE COURT: Overruled.
26 You may answer.
27 THE WITNESS: Well, I don't know which
28 one -- you got three different things there, don't
5547
1 you?
2 MR. MESEREAU: Sure.
3 May I approach, Your Honor?
4 THE COURT: Yeah.
5 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Showing you Exhibit 803
6 and Exhibit 805, okay?
7 A. This is three. This is five.
8 Q. Yes. Okay? Let's talk about 803. You've
9 already indicated the title -- what purports to be
10 the title is not going to be the title of your book,
11 right?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. And you've already indicated that the bottom
14 paragraph that you say you wrote is not accurate; is
15 that correct?
16 A. Uh-huh. This I wrote.
17 Q. Yes.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. But you're indicating it's not accurate,
20 true?
21 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection; misstates the
22 evidence.
23 THE COURT: Overruled.
24 You may answer.
25 THE WITNESS: Not completely true as far as
26 I'm concerned.
27 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Okay. Let's look at the
28 next exhibit, which is Exhibit No. 805. Do you see
5548
1 that?
2 A. Yes. This -- this one is true. I'm sorry.
3 Yes. I'm sorry.
4 Q. And you wrote that e-mail, correct?
5 A. Yes. Yes.
6 Q. And what you said in the e-mail was, in
7 summary, that you might -- and correct me if I'm
8 wrong, that you thought your knowledge of the
9 Chandlers might be an insurance policy for you?
10 A. Uh-huh.
11 Q. Correct?
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. An insurance policy of employment, right?
14 A. Uh-huh.
15 Q. And what that means is, "I might try and
16 hold over Michael's head what I could say about the
17 Chandlers," right?
18 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: I'm going to object to
19 counsel ascribing any meaning to those words.
20 THE COURT: Sustained.
21 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: What did you mean by
22 "insurance policy of employment"?
23 A. Well, I was not -- I did not have a
24 confidentiality agreement.
25 Q. Okay.
26 A. That's what I -- that's what I basically
27 meant.
28 Q. And did you also mean that, "Because I've
5549
1 spent all these years with Michael, that I could
2 almost use as a threat writing an expose of him if
3 I'm not employed by him"?
4 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Same objection. And
5 argumentative.
6 THE COURT: Overruled.
7 You may answer.
8 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Is that sort of what it
9 means?
10 A. No, not really, because I have never -- I
11 have never sued, I have never sold stories. I have
12 never -- in the 16 and a half years, I've never
13 attempted to extort in any manner.
14 Q. And I'm not saying you did. I'm just asking
15 you --
16 A. No, no, I did not mean it in that respect.
17 Q. Okay. Now, when did you say your work was
18 terminated?
19 A. June 9th, 2004.
20 Q. Okay. And where was your office at the
21 time?
22 A. In my home.
23 Q. You indicated in response to the
24 prosecutor's question that you didn't see Michael
25 very often, right?
26 A. No.
27 Q. And why was that?
28 A. This was -- this was Michael Jackson's modus
5550
1 operandi from the very beginning. I saw Michael
2 mostly if we were on a tour that my presence -- if I
3 may explain. I have worked in the entertainment
4 industry prior to working with Michael Jackson for
5 17 and a half years, and I know familiarity breeds
6 contempt. And the further you stay away from
7 artists, the better off you are.
8 Q. And for that reason, did you not go to
9 Neverland very much?
10 A. I went to Neverland when I brought groups
11 up, such as the Challengers Boys & Girls Club. Such
12 as the First AME Church, et cetera. I was not a
13 regular visitor at Neverland at all.
14 Q. Now, who was the first group that you
15 mentioned that you brought?
16 A. The Challengers Boys --
17 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. Relevance;
18 beyond the scope.
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: In a typical year, while
21 you were employed, how often would you visit
22 Neverland?
23 A. I haven't been to Neverland in years. My
24 visits to Neverland were on a more frequent basis
25 about five years ago when I was able to get groups
26 approved to go to Neverland.
27 Q. Okay. And you had an office located where?
28 A. Before we closed the offices, we were at
5551
1 9255 Sunset Boulevard.
2 Q. Okay. And how many years did you spend in
3 that office?
4 A. I think we were there approximately ten
5 years, I think. I cannot be for certain.
6 Q. Okay. Now, you indicated at the music
7 awards, the World Music Awards, that at one point
8 you saw Jordie on Michael Jackson's lap and his
9 sister on Michael Jackson's lap together, right?
10 A. That is correct.
11 Q. Okay. And where was Michael Jackson sitting
12 in that event?
13 A. He was seated on the front row next to
14 Prince Albert of Monaco, and -- on one side, and
15 Linda Evans, the actress, on the other side.
16 And I attempted to get -- I had arranged for
17 the Chandlers to sit directly behind Mr. Jackson,
18 because I did not feel that the royalty wanted to be
19 bothered with those guests. But he insisted that
20 they sit with him, so I left it alone.
21 Q. Did the mother sit with Michael Jackson as
22 well?
23 A. Behind.
24 Q. Okay. So when you saw the brother and
25 sister sitting on Michael Jackson's lap in the first
26 row, the mother was right behind, correct?
27 A. Correct.
28 Q. So this is the first row in full view of
5552
1 everyone at the awards show, correct?
2 A. That is correct.
3 Q. There was no effort to hide anything at any
4 time?
5 A. No.
6 Q. At some point, did you see the children with
7 their mother behind where Michael Jackson was
8 sitting?
9 A. When I brought them in to their seats, they
10 were seated behind Mr. Jackson. Mr. Jackson moved
11 them up front.
12 Q. Okay. Did -- when you say he moved them up
13 front, did he move them into seats up front?
14 A. He moved them into his seat.
15 Q. Okay. Okay. So the children moved into his
16 seat to sit with him?
17 A. With him.
18 Q. And the mother still stayed sitting behind?
19 A. That is correct.
20 Q. And at some point did you see the children
21 go back with their mother or did they always stay
22 with Michael?
23 A. No, they stayed up there.
24 Q. And I think at one point you saw Jordie
25 still sitting on Michael's lap, and Jordie's sister
26 sitting on Linda Evans' lap?
27 A. That is correct.
28 Q. Please tell the jury what the World Music
5553
1 Awards show is.
2 A. The World Music Awards show is a show that's
3 given annually in Monte Carlo for the best record
4 sales in -- the best worldwide record sales.
5 I had arranged for Mr. Jackson to be honored
6 by the World Music Awards, and -- because of his
7 record sales. And we had gone there for that
8 particular purpose, for him to be honored by the
9 World Music Awards. And to be seen around the
10 world. And I attempted, because perception is 90
11 percent of what the public thinks, to get those
12 people off of his lap.
13 Q. Did the Chandler family seem to remain
14 during the entire show sitting with Michael?
15 A. Oh, of course. Yes.
16 Q. Okay. Now, you -- how did you get to
17 Monaco?
18 A. We flew.
19 Q. Did you -- fly from where?
20 A. Los Angeles.
21 Q. Okay. And were there other stops on that
22 trip?
23 A. To Paris. We flew from Los Angeles to
24 Paris, and Paris to Nice, and we helicoptered to
25 Monte Carlo.
26 Q. Okay. Do you recall attending any other
27 events with Mr. Jackson on the trip to Monaco?
28 A. Of course, His Royal Highness Prince Albert
5554
1 hosted a reception for visiting dignitaries, and I
2 was -- he had an event -- when you go there, they
3 have an event each night for visiting dignitaries.
4 And there was only one event that Mr. Jackson
5 attended.
6 Q. And do you recall whether or not the
7 Chandler family were at that event?
8 A. They were with him.
9 Q. And that was because Michael insisted that
10 the Chandler family go?
11 A. I don't know whether he insisted whether
12 they attend or not.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. But all of his guests were invited.
15 Q. Okay. Were there any other guests of
16 Michael Jackson that you haven't named?
17 A. No, just the Chandler family.
18 Q. Okay. Now, did you begin writing your book
19 after your employment ended?
20 A. I had made notes on certain things. Yes,
21 the actual beginning of the writing of the book
22 started after my employment ended, yes.
23 Q. And has there been an effort by you or your
24 co-writer to market the book overseas?
25 A. Well, I would imagine that the publisher
26 has.
27 Q. Has there been an attempt to market it in
28 the United States?
5555
1 A. I would imagine that the publisher has.
2 Q. Okay. And who is in charge of that issue?
3 A. My co-writer.
4 Q. Okay. Now, do you typically meet with your
5 co-writer periodically?
6 A. We talk on the phone. That's -- that's
7 perhaps one of the reasons there is some confusion,
8 because our -- he's based in New York and I'm based
9 in Los Angeles.
10 Q. Okay. And do you sort of fax or e-mail
11 manuscripts to one another?
12 A. We e-mail.
13 Q. Okay. And do you then typically correct or
14 change what you think is either inaccurate or
15 inappropriate?
16 A. Oh, I've changed millions of things that
17 were inaccurate that I didn't say.
18 Q. And how far away from having a product that
19 you think is accurate and complete are you?
20 A. I would say six to eight weeks.
21 Q. Okay. Have you come up with a date during
22 which you intend to announce the availability of the
23 book?
24 A. No.
25 Q. Okay. Do you remember in your interview on
26 April 7th, 2005, a police officer asking you about
27 whether or not there was any licking on the plane by
28 Michael, and you said, "I just don't remember and I
5556
1 would be lying to say that I did"?
2 A. Of course I recall saying that.
3 Q. And that was the truth, right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Now, on the plane coming back, do you
6 remember where Jordie's mother June was seated?
7 A. Sure.
8 Q. Where was she seated?
9 A. We were all in first class, and on one side
10 of the rear of first class was Michael and Jordie
11 Chandler. On the total opposite side was June
12 Chandler and her daughter.
13 Q. Certainly June and her daughter were in a
14 position to observe Michael and Jordie, correct?
15 A. That is correct.
16 Q. So they were seated parallel to one another?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Nothing that went on was hidden from
19 anybody, correct?
20 A. No.
21 Q. And where were you seated in relation --
22 A. I was seated at least two front -- two rows
23 ahead of them.
24 Q. How many times have you been contacted by
25 any representative of the sheriffs or police
26 department in this case?
27 A. Well, I was contacted prior to my
28 registration -- I mean, my being served with a
5557
1 subpoena. And at one point, a Richard Steingard, I
2 approached him about representation because he had
3 represented me before in this case, and then he came
4 back and said that he could not represent me any
5 longer. And that's when Attorney Sachs was
6 contacted. So I had been -- they attempted to serve
7 a subpoena to me, and at that time I did accept the
8 subpoena at Richard Steingard's office, and
9 following which he informed me that he could no
10 longer represent me.
11 Q. Have you ever spoken to any prosecutor for
12 the government in this case directly?
13 A. Who do you mean, the government?
14 Q. These people. The prosecutors.
15 A. Certainly. I've -- Mr. Auchincloss and
16 Steve Robel.
17 Q. When did you last meet with Mr. Auchincloss?
18 A. I met with him on Friday when I was told to
19 go home and come back.
20 Q. Okay. And did you meet with him before
21 that?
22 A. Of course. You mentioned an April date that
23 Mr. Auchincloss had me to come up.
24 Q. Okay. Was that April 7th?
25 A. I guess, sir. I don't -- I'm not good with
26 dates, so --
27 Q. You had an interview with Sergeant Steve
28 Robel, right?
5558
1 A. And Mr. Auchincloss.
2 Q. Okay. How many meetings did you have with
3 Sergeant Robel, if you know?
4 A. I only met Sergeant Robel when I was with
5 Mr. Auchincloss. I met them both at the same time.
6 Q. Okay. So when you said, "I just don't
7 remember and I would be lying to say that I did,"
8 about head licking, Mr. Auchincloss was right there,
9 right?
10 A. We were -- we were there, yes, we were --
11 the three of us were in the room.
12 Q. So he clearly heard you say that, correct?
13 A. Mr. Auchincloss was in the room with Mr.
14 Robel.
15 Q. And he tried to misquote you in court today,
16 correct?
17 MR. AUCHINCLOSS: Objection. This is
18 argumentative; improper.
19 THE COURT: Sustained.
20 MR. MESEREAU: No further questions, Your
21 Honor.