'The Abrams Report' for November 17
Read the transcript to the Thursday show
ABRAMS: Coming up, last night we talked about Michael Jackson having that little incident in the ladies room in the United Arab of Emirates. Tonight, the archenemy of all Jackson supporters joins us. Diane Dimond has a new book with new details about what really happened at the Michael Jackson case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, ACCUSED OF MOLESTATION: When you say bed, you‘re thinking sexual. They make that sexual. It‘s not sexual. We‘re going to sleep. I tuck them in. We–I put like little music on and do a little story time. I read a book. They‘re very sweet. Put the fireplace on, give them hot milk. You know we have little cookies. It‘s very charming, very sweet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Very charming, very sweet. I know you‘re thinking Michael Jackson, no, no, no. Turn off the TV. No, this is new. This is good.
(INAUDIBLE) shortly after he was acquitted back in June of sexually molesting a 13-year-old boy, apart from the incident where he was seen in a ladies‘ room there in Bahrain reportedly putting on makeup, he has been keeping a pretty low profile.
But a new book may change all of that. The just released book is called “Be Careful Who You Love: Inside the Michael Jackson Case” and the author Diane Dimond joins me now.
Diane, good to see you.
DIANE DIMOND, AUTHOR, “BE CAREFUL WHO YOU LOVE”: Good to see you.
ABRAMS: All right. Diane, you read through this book and every detail is seemingly more incriminating than the next about Michael Jackson. Meaning, forget about guilt as a legal sense, but every detail just makes him seem more awful than the next one in terms of child molestation and yet, in the book, you don‘t simply just say, I think Michael Jackson is a child molester.
DIMOND: Oh, no...
ABRAMS: Why?
DIMOND: Because I‘m an investigative reporter and there‘s two things you don‘t do. You don‘t reveal sources and you don‘t give an opinion.
ABRAMS: Why? Isn‘t it dishonest though? I mean...
DIMOND: No.
ABRAMS: ... the book is basically an indictment of Michael Jackson.
DIMOND: I don‘t think it is. I think it‘s a statement of facts of everything I found out and not even everything. But the basic things that I found out over 12 years of covering this man from 1993, basically, through 2005.
ABRAMS: But what you found...
DIMOND: All in one place, put in perspective.
ABRAMS: But what you found is that Michael Jackson had a lot of problems with children over that time.
DIMOND: Well he would tell you it‘s not problems at all. He‘d tell you that...
ABRAMS: Right.
DIMOND: ... they just playing...
ABRAMS: But that‘s not what the book suggests.
DIMOND: ... games and reliving his childhood.
ABRAMS: Right? I mean but that‘s not what the book...
DIMOND: That‘s not where the facts...
ABRAMS: ... a fair reading of the book.
DIMOND: That‘s not where the facts took me.
ABRAMS: Right.
DIMOND: The facts took me to a pattern of behavior, that, for example, if you read the chapter by Ken Lanning of the FBI. He‘s retired now, but he wrote the profile of a pedophile for the FBI. Michael Jackson‘s pattern of behavior and Ken Lanning‘s pattern of behavior are eerily similar. Now I leave it to the reader to make the final jump if he‘s guilty...
ABRAMS: But you have to be fair in saying that if you leave it to the reader to just read your book, there‘s no way they‘re going to come out with any other conclusion.
DIMOND: I don‘t think you‘re right.
ABRAMS: Really?
DIMOND: I think you‘re being too harsh...
ABRAMS: Someone could read...
DIMOND: Look...
ABRAMS: ... your book and say, I don‘t believe Michael Jackson molested children if that‘s all they knew...
DIMOND: A jury of his peers...
ABRAMS: But they didn‘t read that book...
DIMOND: ... said he wasn‘t guilty.
ABRAMS: They didn‘t read the book.
DIMOND: Well you know what? I don‘t think it‘s going to change any minds.
ABRAMS: Really?
DIMOND: I think if people think that Michael Jackson...
ABRAMS: You‘ve got some new details in there in that book and you know again...
DIMOND: Quote it.
ABRAMS: No, I mean but you‘ve got new details in the book and I think that–I think the only fair and honest way to read that book is to say I mean, the two producers on my team who read the book said there‘s no question. Diane Dimond thinks Michael Jackson is guilty. There‘s no other way to look at it.
All right, let‘s read...
DIMOND: I don‘t agree.
ABRAMS: All right. New details from the book. D.A. Tom Sneddon called the accuser after the verdict and he said and I–quote–“Listen son, we believed you. I can‘t explain why the jury didn‘t, but I want you to stay on track with your life. Keep playing football. Stay in the Scouts. You‘ve got a good life now that your mom has remarried. Try to put this behind you.”
Where is the accuser and their family now?
DIMOND: They are living in a state witness protection program, still in the state of California.
ABRAMS: Witness protection program.
DIMOND: Yes, under an assumed name. That‘s why I felt comfortable using his name in this book and his mother because it‘s not their name anymore. He‘s doing well. His mother is going to have a baby next month, a baby girl, and the stepfather that he‘s gotten so close to has just shipped out to Iraq...
ABRAMS: And they haven‘t sued?
DIMOND: No.
(CROSSTALK)
DIMOND: Tom Mesereau kept saying you watch. They‘re going to file a civil suit like O.J. Simpson‘s family. They haven‘t filed...
ABRAMS: You say that there was effectively juror misconduct. That one juror, Eleanor Cook, knew a key witness in the case, went to visit that key witness at J.C. Penney where she worked during the trial.
DIMOND: During the trial.
ABRAMS: During the trial and I‘m reading again from your book. Cook took Adrian McManus‘ aside and praised her friend for doing well when she had testified for the prosecution. Eleanor Cook also reportedly told McManus that she could never, ever vote to let Michael Jackson go free. She was completely convinced Jackson was a pedophile.
So what happened?
DIMOND: Well, this the juror who of course, went ahead with the acquittal decision on all 10 counts and then what was it, you were there with me, 36 hours, 24 hours later came out and said you know, I really think I was coerced. I really think he is a pedophile and she‘s now going to write a book called “Free as a Bird, Guilty as Sin”. So I mean that‘s where she stands, flip and flop. But twice during the trial, this woman visited a key prosecution witness...
ABRAMS: Did anyone know about this? I‘m trying to remember...
DIMOND: Well I knew about it and I just didn‘t feel as a reporter that it was my job to go and tell the judge.
ABRAMS: Wasn‘t–didn‘t–wasn‘t there talk at the time about a possible juror misconduct and the notion that one of the jurors had known one of the witnesses, et cetera. I mean we didn‘t know this kind of detail at the time, right?
DIMOND: Well I don‘t believe that Eleanor Cook was very upfront with the judge about how well she knew Adrian McManus during the voir dire. But the problem with her stemmed way back when she announced or it was revealed during the trial that she was writing a book. Well that‘s against California law. I was surprised that Judge Melville didn‘t do something, maybe remove her but now, my revelation that she‘s actually visiting with witnesses during the trial, I wonder what the judge would have done if he had known.
ABRAMS: Real quick, the Ruba-Ruba Club (ph)...
DIMOND: Yes.
ABRAMS: What is it?
DIMOND: That was the nickname for all of the boys in Michael Jackson‘s life. He would...
ABRAMS: Who nicknamed them...
DIMOND: Michael Jackson did.
ABRAMS: Yes.
DIMOND: He had a Ruba-Ruba Club (ph). They had a special language. The ‘93 boy I have transcripts in here of him talking to a psychiatrist explaining that the Ruba-Ruba Club (ph) does not include women. They have their own language and it doesn‘t include parents or sisters.
ABRAMS: I‘ll say what I don‘t think you want to say. But I‘ll say it. I think that what this book does is it lays out, all together, much of the evidence that couldn‘t come in the trial, which is the story of Michael Jackson‘s life for the last 12 years, which isn‘t pretty, parts of it...
DIMOND: I wanted to put it in perspective...
ABRAMS: ... and guilt or not guilt, this is a guy with lots of problems and you know and I think it‘s very fair to be able to say that there was overwhelming evidence that Michael Jackson had serious problems with kids over the years.
DIMOND: And you know, the reason I named it this, “Be Careful Who You Love”, is I think we need to be careful who we love as our stars and our superstars and as fans. I think we need to insist on better behavior.
ABRAMS: Diane Dimond, thanks for coming in.
DIMOND: My pleasure.
ABRAMS: Appreciate it.
DIMOND: Thanks.
Source: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10097506/
Read the transcript to the Thursday show
ABRAMS: Coming up, last night we talked about Michael Jackson having that little incident in the ladies room in the United Arab of Emirates. Tonight, the archenemy of all Jackson supporters joins us. Diane Dimond has a new book with new details about what really happened at the Michael Jackson case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, ACCUSED OF MOLESTATION: When you say bed, you‘re thinking sexual. They make that sexual. It‘s not sexual. We‘re going to sleep. I tuck them in. We–I put like little music on and do a little story time. I read a book. They‘re very sweet. Put the fireplace on, give them hot milk. You know we have little cookies. It‘s very charming, very sweet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Very charming, very sweet. I know you‘re thinking Michael Jackson, no, no, no. Turn off the TV. No, this is new. This is good.
(INAUDIBLE) shortly after he was acquitted back in June of sexually molesting a 13-year-old boy, apart from the incident where he was seen in a ladies‘ room there in Bahrain reportedly putting on makeup, he has been keeping a pretty low profile.
But a new book may change all of that. The just released book is called “Be Careful Who You Love: Inside the Michael Jackson Case” and the author Diane Dimond joins me now.
Diane, good to see you.
DIANE DIMOND, AUTHOR, “BE CAREFUL WHO YOU LOVE”: Good to see you.
ABRAMS: All right. Diane, you read through this book and every detail is seemingly more incriminating than the next about Michael Jackson. Meaning, forget about guilt as a legal sense, but every detail just makes him seem more awful than the next one in terms of child molestation and yet, in the book, you don‘t simply just say, I think Michael Jackson is a child molester.
DIMOND: Oh, no...
ABRAMS: Why?
DIMOND: Because I‘m an investigative reporter and there‘s two things you don‘t do. You don‘t reveal sources and you don‘t give an opinion.
ABRAMS: Why? Isn‘t it dishonest though? I mean...
DIMOND: No.
ABRAMS: ... the book is basically an indictment of Michael Jackson.
DIMOND: I don‘t think it is. I think it‘s a statement of facts of everything I found out and not even everything. But the basic things that I found out over 12 years of covering this man from 1993, basically, through 2005.
ABRAMS: But what you found...
DIMOND: All in one place, put in perspective.
ABRAMS: But what you found is that Michael Jackson had a lot of problems with children over that time.
DIMOND: Well he would tell you it‘s not problems at all. He‘d tell you that...
ABRAMS: Right.
DIMOND: ... they just playing...
ABRAMS: But that‘s not what the book suggests.
DIMOND: ... games and reliving his childhood.
ABRAMS: Right? I mean but that‘s not what the book...
DIMOND: That‘s not where the facts...
ABRAMS: ... a fair reading of the book.
DIMOND: That‘s not where the facts took me.
ABRAMS: Right.
DIMOND: The facts took me to a pattern of behavior, that, for example, if you read the chapter by Ken Lanning of the FBI. He‘s retired now, but he wrote the profile of a pedophile for the FBI. Michael Jackson‘s pattern of behavior and Ken Lanning‘s pattern of behavior are eerily similar. Now I leave it to the reader to make the final jump if he‘s guilty...
ABRAMS: But you have to be fair in saying that if you leave it to the reader to just read your book, there‘s no way they‘re going to come out with any other conclusion.
DIMOND: I don‘t think you‘re right.
ABRAMS: Really?
DIMOND: I think you‘re being too harsh...
ABRAMS: Someone could read...
DIMOND: Look...
ABRAMS: ... your book and say, I don‘t believe Michael Jackson molested children if that‘s all they knew...
DIMOND: A jury of his peers...
ABRAMS: But they didn‘t read that book...
DIMOND: ... said he wasn‘t guilty.
ABRAMS: They didn‘t read the book.
DIMOND: Well you know what? I don‘t think it‘s going to change any minds.
ABRAMS: Really?
DIMOND: I think if people think that Michael Jackson...
ABRAMS: You‘ve got some new details in there in that book and you know again...
DIMOND: Quote it.
ABRAMS: No, I mean but you‘ve got new details in the book and I think that–I think the only fair and honest way to read that book is to say I mean, the two producers on my team who read the book said there‘s no question. Diane Dimond thinks Michael Jackson is guilty. There‘s no other way to look at it.
All right, let‘s read...
DIMOND: I don‘t agree.
ABRAMS: All right. New details from the book. D.A. Tom Sneddon called the accuser after the verdict and he said and I–quote–“Listen son, we believed you. I can‘t explain why the jury didn‘t, but I want you to stay on track with your life. Keep playing football. Stay in the Scouts. You‘ve got a good life now that your mom has remarried. Try to put this behind you.”
Where is the accuser and their family now?
DIMOND: They are living in a state witness protection program, still in the state of California.
ABRAMS: Witness protection program.
DIMOND: Yes, under an assumed name. That‘s why I felt comfortable using his name in this book and his mother because it‘s not their name anymore. He‘s doing well. His mother is going to have a baby next month, a baby girl, and the stepfather that he‘s gotten so close to has just shipped out to Iraq...
ABRAMS: And they haven‘t sued?
DIMOND: No.
(CROSSTALK)
DIMOND: Tom Mesereau kept saying you watch. They‘re going to file a civil suit like O.J. Simpson‘s family. They haven‘t filed...
ABRAMS: You say that there was effectively juror misconduct. That one juror, Eleanor Cook, knew a key witness in the case, went to visit that key witness at J.C. Penney where she worked during the trial.
DIMOND: During the trial.
ABRAMS: During the trial and I‘m reading again from your book. Cook took Adrian McManus‘ aside and praised her friend for doing well when she had testified for the prosecution. Eleanor Cook also reportedly told McManus that she could never, ever vote to let Michael Jackson go free. She was completely convinced Jackson was a pedophile.
So what happened?
DIMOND: Well, this the juror who of course, went ahead with the acquittal decision on all 10 counts and then what was it, you were there with me, 36 hours, 24 hours later came out and said you know, I really think I was coerced. I really think he is a pedophile and she‘s now going to write a book called “Free as a Bird, Guilty as Sin”. So I mean that‘s where she stands, flip and flop. But twice during the trial, this woman visited a key prosecution witness...
ABRAMS: Did anyone know about this? I‘m trying to remember...
DIMOND: Well I knew about it and I just didn‘t feel as a reporter that it was my job to go and tell the judge.
ABRAMS: Wasn‘t–didn‘t–wasn‘t there talk at the time about a possible juror misconduct and the notion that one of the jurors had known one of the witnesses, et cetera. I mean we didn‘t know this kind of detail at the time, right?
DIMOND: Well I don‘t believe that Eleanor Cook was very upfront with the judge about how well she knew Adrian McManus during the voir dire. But the problem with her stemmed way back when she announced or it was revealed during the trial that she was writing a book. Well that‘s against California law. I was surprised that Judge Melville didn‘t do something, maybe remove her but now, my revelation that she‘s actually visiting with witnesses during the trial, I wonder what the judge would have done if he had known.
ABRAMS: Real quick, the Ruba-Ruba Club (ph)...
DIMOND: Yes.
ABRAMS: What is it?
DIMOND: That was the nickname for all of the boys in Michael Jackson‘s life. He would...
ABRAMS: Who nicknamed them...
DIMOND: Michael Jackson did.
ABRAMS: Yes.
DIMOND: He had a Ruba-Ruba Club (ph). They had a special language. The ‘93 boy I have transcripts in here of him talking to a psychiatrist explaining that the Ruba-Ruba Club (ph) does not include women. They have their own language and it doesn‘t include parents or sisters.
ABRAMS: I‘ll say what I don‘t think you want to say. But I‘ll say it. I think that what this book does is it lays out, all together, much of the evidence that couldn‘t come in the trial, which is the story of Michael Jackson‘s life for the last 12 years, which isn‘t pretty, parts of it...
DIMOND: I wanted to put it in perspective...
ABRAMS: ... and guilt or not guilt, this is a guy with lots of problems and you know and I think it‘s very fair to be able to say that there was overwhelming evidence that Michael Jackson had serious problems with kids over the years.
DIMOND: And you know, the reason I named it this, “Be Careful Who You Love”, is I think we need to be careful who we love as our stars and our superstars and as fans. I think we need to insist on better behavior.
ABRAMS: Diane Dimond, thanks for coming in.
DIMOND: My pleasure.
ABRAMS: Appreciate it.
DIMOND: Thanks.
Source: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10097506/