‘Scarborough Country’ for Dec. 9 2003
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Read the complete transcript to Tuesday’s show
Guests: Wayne LaPierre, Jack Burkman, Tony Coelho, Stacy Brown, Majestik Magnificent, Anne Bremner, Lisa Bloom
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight: A bombshell in the Michael Jackson case, could it clear the singer of charges against him?
You’re about to enter SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. No passport required, no P.C. police allowed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH (voice-over): Unfounded. That’s what the LAPD said about the charges against the king of pop. But Santa Barbara dismisses their report. Will this new information clear the singer or just muddy the waters?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They couldn’t catch him on anything. So the only thing they could see, is the sentiment of the black community, that they could possibly get him on is his love for children.
SCARBOROUGH: We’ll get the inside story from Jackson family friends.
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I’m very proud and honored to endorse Howard Dean to be the next president of the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SCARBOROUGH: Al Gore steps out today in Harlem today, giving Howard Dean a hand and his former allies a slap in the face. Have Gore’s politics lurched to the left, or is he just positioning himself to be the next Democratic king maker? We’ll take a closer look at the Clinton-Gore civil war.
Court TV, Spike TV, now NRA TV? The gun lobby wants to fire up their own network to get out their pro-gun message and to get around pesky finance laws. We’ll get the story straight from the NRA.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: But first, the case against Michael Jackson is going up in smoke. It’s time for tonight’s “Real Deal.”
The DA’s charges against Michael Jackson are collapsing like a house of cards. Today, a bombshell blew a hole in the DA’s case, when it was revealed that Jackson’s accuser previously denied ever being molested.
In an interview with the L.A. police and child welfare agents, the boy’s mother and brother echoed those denials. Tonight, Michael Jackson’s spokesman, Stuart Backerman, responded to the LAPD report, saying-quote – “The government report is what we’ve been saying all along, that there is no merit to the allegations and Michael Jackson is innocent. All this does is reinforce what we’ve been saying.”
The trial of the century? At this rate, there may not even be a trial. And that’s tonight’s “Real Deal.”
Now, the boy who’s accusing Michael Jackson sat besides him for a BBC documentary that aired on ABC earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: Whenever kids come here, they always want to stay with me. They never want to stay in the guest room. And I have never invited them in my room. They always just want to stay. They say, can I stay with you tonight? I go, if it’s OK with your parents, yes, you can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Now, the boy seemed comfortable with Jackson during that interview. And today’s bombshell, the uncovered memo from the Department of Children and Family Services, says this-quote-”The child denied any form of sexual abuse. He denied that he ever slept in the same bed as the entertainer.”
The memo also has parts of an interview with the accuser’s mother. And it said-quote-”Her children are never left alone with the entertainer. Her son has slept in the same room, but they did not share a bed.”
And the memo said the investigation-quote-”concluded, the allegations of sexual abuse to be unfounded.”
Court TV’s Lisa Bloom, is this the end of the Michael Jackson case?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: No, it’s certainly not the end of the case. It’s a significant piece of evidence for the defense. There’s no question about that.
But I think there’s really three choices now. One, Jackson could be innocent. Two, the molestation happened after February, when this investigation occurred. Or, three, the boy was covering for Jackson. Now, Joe, you’ve got to keep in mind that child molestation is one of the most under-reported crimes. And it’s a crime that’s marked by the victims accommodating the perpetrator.
That’s why molestation, in some cases, can go on for years, because kids will deny that it’s happening, even when it is.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Lisa, and, certainly, that’s something I thought about. But what about the mother saying in the report-quote-”Her children are never left alone with the entertainer”? That’s certainly more damning for the mother, more so than the child, isn’t it?
BLOOM: Well, it is. But, again, we don’t know what was going on in February.
The prosecutor, Tom Sneddon, said today publicly that some of the incidents were after February, which would be after this report. We don’t know whether the boy was lying to his mother about what was going on. We don’t know how much knowledge she had about the boy spending time alone with Jackson. There’s a lot more questions than there are answers at this point.
SCARBOROUGH: Defense attorney Anne Bremner, is the case of the century over before it even began?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Boy, I think it is at this point.
The case was unfounded. It could have found to be unsubstantiated. And the key isn’t so much that they found it to be unfounded. But the boy said nothing happened. His mother said nothing happened, as did his brother. And those are all inconsistent statements. I just don’t see how this case can survive.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, district attorney Tom Sneddon said this about the memo release-quote-”Our investigators were aware of the contents of the interviews prior to seeking the search and arrest warrants. Given what we know now, we do not consider the DCFS statement a significant factor.”
Anne, how could that not be considered a significant factor, when you’ve got the mother and you’ve got the mother’s son and you’ve got the mother’s other son saying nothing ever happened between this child and Michael Jackson? That’s not significant?
BREMNER: It’s extremely significant. Michael Jackson’s statement was, the truth runs marathons, but a lie just runs a sprint.
And given that they said nothing happened, and they were talking to child welfare experts, whose job is to look into child abuse, it’s almost like the prosecutors, like-in “Les Miserables.” Javert, remember? He went after Jean Valjean to the ends of the Earth? Tom Sneddon is starting to look like a very overzealous prosecutor, if he knew about this information, which we have to assume we did.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, that’s just absurd. That shows a real lack of understanding about child molestation.
There are many people who never report molestation, who walk around as adults with a terrible secret that they never tell. They protect the perpetrator for years and years, sometimes forever. And they do that because they love the perpetrator. They think they were in love at the time. They blame themselves. And that’s especially true for a 12-year-old boy who clearly did love Michael Jackson. So the fact that he denied it at one point in time doesn’t necessarily mean that these allegations aren’t true when he later reported them.
SCARBOROUGH: Let me bring in Majestik.
Now, Majestik, you’re a confidante of the Jackson family. And I understand you have a statement that you want to read that Michael’s father just wrote.
MAJESTIK MAGNIFICENT, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: No, it’s a not a statement. He just told me, if you all asked me this stuff, he just wanted to let you all know that he stands behind his son 100 percent, and like the world will see, he’ll be cleared of all these allegations.
But let me say this. Joseph is completely correct. I’ve been saying all along that, as time goes on, this case is going to fall apart by the DA. And you see that is exactly what’s happening. And what Lisa Bloom is saying-I know this is killing her. She hates to admit this. But the DA really-he’s going to look to the whole world like an idiot. He really is.
BLOOM: I don’t have any investment in how the DA looks or on the outcome of this case, but I do have an investment in debunking myths about child molestation.
I am concerned that people not misunderstand what’s going on in a case like this or in any case where a child might have been abused. I think it’s important for this kid to have a day in court. And, my goodness, it’s awfully early to be starting about a death knell or nails in the coffin. The case hasn’t even been born yet, hasn’t even been charged or filed yet.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: That has been your problem all along. I’ve been saying this to you all the time. I said, Lisa, let’s wait. But, no, you already convicted Michael.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: That’s absurd. I’ve said he was guilty.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Everybody, we’re going to bring in Stacy Brown. He’s another family friend.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Now, how are the Jacksons reacting to the DA’s statement? And now Majestik said we need to wait for all the information to get out. Do we need to wait for all the information to get out before this case is dropped?
STACY BROWN, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND: Well, I think the family is disappointed that even still after this bombshell, the DA refused to throw in the towel. He knows he doesn’t have a case.
Lisa pointed out something that I think is very interesting, when she said this could have happened after this investigation. Now, Michael Jackson-one thing he’s not is stupid. And if he was a child molester, which this is proven that he’s not, why would he molest this child after this investigation, knowing that the investigation is going on?
BLOOM: But child molestation is not a rational act. Why does he sleep with hundreds of boys after he was accused in 1993? That shows his level of irrationality.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Lisa, that’s what you’re saying.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Lisa-you’re wrong, Lisa. He’s never said he slept with thousands of boys.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Stacy, I want to ask you about the Jacksons. Now, you’ve talked to the Jackson family today. Did they expect the charges to be dropped after this document was released?
BROWN: Absolutely. Why shouldn’t they have?
After this document from an official government agency cleared Michael Jackson, why would not-why would they not expect this to be dropped? Tom Sneddon, I’m sure, was somewhere in his office trying to figure out a way in which he can still keep this thing going. And that’s exactly what he’s doing.
SCARBOROUGH: Anne, let me bring you back in here. We’ve always got to balance-like Lisa says, in cases like this, we’ve got to balance not only the rights of the accused, but we also have to worry with the rights of the child and protecting children.
Do you think, at this stage, that the DA should drop the charges against Michael Jackson or continue the investigation?
BREMNER: Well, let’s assume they found something in a search warrant. Evidence doesn’t lie. Witnesses can and do. Then the answer is no. If there’s something else out there, then I think they...
SCARBOROUGH: You need physical evidence that there may have been sexual contact between the two?
BREMNER: Or of any letters, pornography, things like that that were identified by the boy.
If that’s there, then he should fully investigate the case. But if there’s nothing else-and I have great respect for Lisa. But I’ve prosecuted these kinds of cases. And I’ve defended them. And it’s very unusual for there to be this kind of denial with child welfare, with full investigation, and then the case going forward.
So, if there’s something to look at, go ahead. But we have a presumption of innocence in this country. People have fought and died for it.
MAGNIFICENT: Exactly.
BREMNER: And I think this should-at some point, it’s got to be over if there isn’t a case.
SCARBOROUGH: Lisa Bloom, let’s take a step back. The news seems to keep getting worse for the prosecutor’s case. You’ve got the mother’s credibility that’s been called in to question. And now Jackson’s been cleared by a state agency, the LAPD. Where does the DA go from here? And when do they throw in the towel, if ever?
BLOOM: Joe, I’ve got to tell you, the reports of the death of this case are greatly premature. The DA has not even filed formal charges yet. That’s supposed to happen next week. And then the case will go forward.
It’s much too early to say that this case is over with. Those charges will be filed. There will be a preliminary hearing. There will be a trial. And all of the evidence on both sides will be heard.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: You have to really examine as to why he hasn’t he filed these charges yet.
MAGNIFICENT: Exactly. Yes.
BROWN: Think about it. He’s calling. He’s advertising for witnesses that are not there. You hear reports about thousands of calls to this hot line. Then you hear reports that it’s only been 70.
BLOOM: You know who else advertised for witnesses recently? Mark Geragos, Jackson’s new attorney. Mark Geragos advertised for witnesses in the Scott Peterson case. Lots of people do in high-profile cases.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: They ask for witnesses
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: There’s nothing wrong with that.
SCARBOROUGH: We won’t veer off into the Laci Peterson trial quite yet.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: But coming up next on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, much more on the Michael Jackson case and the report that may help clear him.
Plus, later:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORE: The only major candidate for the nomination of my party that had the good judgment, experience and good sense to feel and see and articulate the right choice was Howard Dean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Some Democrats are calling Al Gore’s motives into question. Why is the former V.P. sticking his neck out for Howard Dean? We’ll debate that.
Plus: James Brown has another reason to feel good. This time, he thinks that the secretary of state, Colin Powell, is going to be giving him a new title. We’ll tell you about the godfather of soul’s new title when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: The Michael Jackson trial of the century. Could a leaked memo clear the superstar?
Much more on that story straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM SNEDDON, SANTA BARBARA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Jackson himself, I believe, has said that this was all done to try to ruin his new C.D. that was coming out or whatever it is he’s doing, like the sheriff and I really are into that kind of music.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Santa Barbara district attorney Tom Sneddon seemed confident when he gave that press conference back in November. But, boy, what a difference a month makes.
Stacy, is this battle between Sneddon and Jackson so personal that you believe the DA’s office will never back down, regardless of what evidence comes out between now and the trial?
BROWN: Absolutely.
I think, obviously, in Tom Sneddon’s statement, he was extremely arrogant. Even the statement today, to come out and dismiss a government agency’s report to find that Michael Jackson-clearing Michael Jackson of these charges, to come out and make the statement that he said that it’s insignificant. And then that press conference, that’s such a joke. Yes, this is personal. You could tell it’s personal. It was personal in ’93. It’s personal in 2003.
And, yes, he will continue to move forward, regardless. I think he’s
” I think, though, he is looking for a way to punt this and can’t quite find a way.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: You’re right. You’re right.
SCARBOROUGH: Do you agree with that, Anne?
BREMNER: I think that it is personal and this case is about motives, the motive of Tom Sneddon, that he wants to prosecute Michael Jackson at any cost, the motive of the mother, which is money, money and more money, and the motive of the child, to please his mother. Those, at least, will be argued by the defense.
It hurts his case as a prosecutor for him to be so overzealous and to presumably ignore important information like this.
SCARBOROUGH: Lisa, you know Tom Sneddon. Do you think he’s overzealous? And do you think he’ll ever get to the point where he would drop this case and face public embarrassment?
MAGNIFICENT: I can answer what Lisa is going to say before she answers.
BLOOM: I think it’s absurd to say that he’s overzealous. This is a man who is elected, who is about to retire, and who has a case either based on the evidence or he doesn’t have a case based on the evidence. It’s going to be a jury that decides this case.
But Michael Jackson is the one who wrote a song about Don Sheldon, a thinly veiled reference to Tom Sneddon, referring to his brother being in the KKK. No one ever wonders about whether Michael Jackson has a personal vendetta against this DA. That’s the real question.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Majestik, are the Jacksons convinced-and you know the Jacksons very well.
MAGNIFICENT: Very well.
SCARBOROUGH: Are the Jacksons convinced that this is a personal witch-hunt against Michael and that Sneddon will never drop this case?
MAGNIFICENT: He will try to do this until he can’t breathe anymore.
Let me tell explain this to you all, so you all understand. This man has a personal vendetta. He needs to leave Michael alone. With the new information that came about in the LAPD, he needs to drop these charges, forget it and go and get a life. That’s what he needs to do.
Him, Lisa Bloom, Diane Dimond, all of them need to leave Michael alone and go and get a life. The problem they have, that they don’t have a life and they’re just picking on Michael. It’s terrible. The DA will always, always do this.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: This is the level of intelligent argument you get on the Jackson side. You get personal attacks on reporters.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: It’s the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: When they don’t have the facts, they just do personal attacks on reporters.
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, Lisa, I don’t want to get into a personal attack against you. You were just personally attacked.
I do, though, want to talk about Tom Sneddon. Again, of course, Michael Jackson fired a shot at Sneddon, but it does seem very personal for the DA’s office, doesn’t it?
BLOOM: No, it honestly does not seem personal.
BROWN: Oh, you got to be kidding.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: We don’t know what evidence he has.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Listen to me, Joe. We don’t know what evidence he has. The case hasn’t even been filed yet.
BROWN: That’s because he has nothing, Lisa. Did you ever think of that, Lisa?
BLOOM: We heard all kinds of rumors about what the evidence is, which I’m not going to report, because it would be irresponsible for me to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: The Jackson people like to talk over people that they disagree with. They like to give personal attacks. But they don’t have a lot of substance. And they don’t seem to be as concerned about children.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: Lisa, you don’t even know the man and you’re making all these allegations. You never even met the man.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: OK, one at a time.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: You don’t even know the man. Crazy. Crazy.
BLOOM: Why don’t we care about his allegations? And why don’t we care about the allegations of all children who claim molestation?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Well, Lisa, this child had said in that document, in that report that we found today, that was released by the Smoking Gun today, the child himself said, Michael Jackson never did anything to me. The child’s mother-the child’s mother said he never did anything.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: He said it in February. And these incidents are after February.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Last week, we told you about a report out in “The L.A. Times” that said the alleged victim’s brother may have witnessed one of the incidents. But the memo says this-quote-”The brother denied sex abuse and expressed fondness for the entertainer.”
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Let me go back to you, Anne.
Will the DA be able to overcome reasonable doubt in light of this new revelation?
BREMNER: I don’t think so. I have the report. It was-all allegations were flatly denied, not only by the purported victim, but by his brother and his mother.
And you also have the issue about the motives of the various people
involved. And then the question is, is there any evidence? And I’m just
talking about the system. I’m not saying, do you know Michael? Did he
write a song that says, leave him alone? Does he not like the DA? Does
the DA have a personal motive? This is a case about, what is the evidence
and what’s a jury going to believe
BLOOM: That’s right.
SCARBOROUGH: Let me go back to you, Lisa, and ask you the same question.
It’s going to be extremely difficult-forget about what we think about Michael Jackson. Forget about what you think as a victims rights attorney.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Isn’t it going to be extraordinarily difficult for a DA to overcome the reasonable doubt standard, when you’ve got the mother, the victim, the alleged victim, and the child all contradicting themselves?
BLOOM: Well, in February, they were saying that there was no abuse.
The DA says the molestation happened after February.
That’s a little fact that everyone is choosing to ignore here. We don’t know. I can’t make a determination now about whether the DA is going to overcome reasonable doubt at trial, because I haven’t seen the evidence yet. And it would be irresponsible for me to reach a conclusion at this point. All I’m saying is, we have to keep in mind that the victim in this case, the alleged victim, is a child. And a child sexual abuse is different than a robbery.
Children report abuse differently than a stranger reporting a robbery against someone else. They will often deny it. They will also cover for the perpetrator. They will often protect, because they love the perpetrator.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Right. And that’s something we can all agree with here, regardless of how we feel. It is a very, very complicated matter, when you start talking about issues like this.
Majestik, let me go to you and ask you a personal question.
MAGNIFICENT: Go ahead.
SCARBOROUGH: How is the Jackson family responding to today’s news? Do they feel vindicated?
MAGNIFICENT: They feel that they expected something like this to happen all along. All the family members always said that Michael is innocent. And, as time goes on, they will see that he will be cleared. And it’s going to be more things coming out then this. You will see.
As time goes on, there will be more evidence coming out to prove that Michael is innocent. The DA can hang it up. He can really-he really can give it up.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Same question for you, Stacy. How is Michael Jackson and the family feeling tonight?
BROWN: Well, I think they’re feeling really good about the fact that the truth is coming out now, and that it’s vindicated Michael.
I think a question for Lisa and everyone else is that I would like to see someone come forward without first going to a civil attorney first. If someone molested my child, I’m not going to a civil attorney. I’m going to the proper authorities.
MAGNIFICENT: Exactly.
BLOOM: Yes, you know what? Michael Jackson has his teams of attorneys. There’s nothing wrong with a kid or anyone in this country going to an attorney and finding out what their rights are. That’s why we have attorneys.
BROWN: But not first. Lisa, go to the police first.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: This kid did not ask for any money.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: One final question for you, Stacy. Will the Jackson family be holding a press conference in the next 24 to 48 hours?
BROWN: From what I understand, yes. And they’re going to address this issue. They should. And I’m really hoping that it does happen, that they all are there in unison, as they belong, because this has to go away, and now’s the time.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, thank you so much. I appreciate you being here.
I’d like to thank Lisa Bloom, Anne Bremner, Majestik Magnificent, and Stacy Brown.
And now it’s time for a “Flyover”
Source: http://www.msnbc.com/news/1003660.asp
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Read the complete transcript to Tuesday’s show
Guests: Wayne LaPierre, Jack Burkman, Tony Coelho, Stacy Brown, Majestik Magnificent, Anne Bremner, Lisa Bloom
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight: A bombshell in the Michael Jackson case, could it clear the singer of charges against him?
You’re about to enter SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY. No passport required, no P.C. police allowed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH (voice-over): Unfounded. That’s what the LAPD said about the charges against the king of pop. But Santa Barbara dismisses their report. Will this new information clear the singer or just muddy the waters?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They couldn’t catch him on anything. So the only thing they could see, is the sentiment of the black community, that they could possibly get him on is his love for children.
SCARBOROUGH: We’ll get the inside story from Jackson family friends.
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I’m very proud and honored to endorse Howard Dean to be the next president of the United States of America.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SCARBOROUGH: Al Gore steps out today in Harlem today, giving Howard Dean a hand and his former allies a slap in the face. Have Gore’s politics lurched to the left, or is he just positioning himself to be the next Democratic king maker? We’ll take a closer look at the Clinton-Gore civil war.
Court TV, Spike TV, now NRA TV? The gun lobby wants to fire up their own network to get out their pro-gun message and to get around pesky finance laws. We’ll get the story straight from the NRA.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: But first, the case against Michael Jackson is going up in smoke. It’s time for tonight’s “Real Deal.”
The DA’s charges against Michael Jackson are collapsing like a house of cards. Today, a bombshell blew a hole in the DA’s case, when it was revealed that Jackson’s accuser previously denied ever being molested.
In an interview with the L.A. police and child welfare agents, the boy’s mother and brother echoed those denials. Tonight, Michael Jackson’s spokesman, Stuart Backerman, responded to the LAPD report, saying-quote – “The government report is what we’ve been saying all along, that there is no merit to the allegations and Michael Jackson is innocent. All this does is reinforce what we’ve been saying.”
The trial of the century? At this rate, there may not even be a trial. And that’s tonight’s “Real Deal.”
Now, the boy who’s accusing Michael Jackson sat besides him for a BBC documentary that aired on ABC earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL JACKSON, SINGER: Whenever kids come here, they always want to stay with me. They never want to stay in the guest room. And I have never invited them in my room. They always just want to stay. They say, can I stay with you tonight? I go, if it’s OK with your parents, yes, you can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Now, the boy seemed comfortable with Jackson during that interview. And today’s bombshell, the uncovered memo from the Department of Children and Family Services, says this-quote-”The child denied any form of sexual abuse. He denied that he ever slept in the same bed as the entertainer.”
The memo also has parts of an interview with the accuser’s mother. And it said-quote-”Her children are never left alone with the entertainer. Her son has slept in the same room, but they did not share a bed.”
And the memo said the investigation-quote-”concluded, the allegations of sexual abuse to be unfounded.”
Court TV’s Lisa Bloom, is this the end of the Michael Jackson case?
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR: No, it’s certainly not the end of the case. It’s a significant piece of evidence for the defense. There’s no question about that.
But I think there’s really three choices now. One, Jackson could be innocent. Two, the molestation happened after February, when this investigation occurred. Or, three, the boy was covering for Jackson. Now, Joe, you’ve got to keep in mind that child molestation is one of the most under-reported crimes. And it’s a crime that’s marked by the victims accommodating the perpetrator.
That’s why molestation, in some cases, can go on for years, because kids will deny that it’s happening, even when it is.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, Lisa, and, certainly, that’s something I thought about. But what about the mother saying in the report-quote-”Her children are never left alone with the entertainer”? That’s certainly more damning for the mother, more so than the child, isn’t it?
BLOOM: Well, it is. But, again, we don’t know what was going on in February.
The prosecutor, Tom Sneddon, said today publicly that some of the incidents were after February, which would be after this report. We don’t know whether the boy was lying to his mother about what was going on. We don’t know how much knowledge she had about the boy spending time alone with Jackson. There’s a lot more questions than there are answers at this point.
SCARBOROUGH: Defense attorney Anne Bremner, is the case of the century over before it even began?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Boy, I think it is at this point.
The case was unfounded. It could have found to be unsubstantiated. And the key isn’t so much that they found it to be unfounded. But the boy said nothing happened. His mother said nothing happened, as did his brother. And those are all inconsistent statements. I just don’t see how this case can survive.
SCARBOROUGH: Now, district attorney Tom Sneddon said this about the memo release-quote-”Our investigators were aware of the contents of the interviews prior to seeking the search and arrest warrants. Given what we know now, we do not consider the DCFS statement a significant factor.”
Anne, how could that not be considered a significant factor, when you’ve got the mother and you’ve got the mother’s son and you’ve got the mother’s other son saying nothing ever happened between this child and Michael Jackson? That’s not significant?
BREMNER: It’s extremely significant. Michael Jackson’s statement was, the truth runs marathons, but a lie just runs a sprint.
And given that they said nothing happened, and they were talking to child welfare experts, whose job is to look into child abuse, it’s almost like the prosecutors, like-in “Les Miserables.” Javert, remember? He went after Jean Valjean to the ends of the Earth? Tom Sneddon is starting to look like a very overzealous prosecutor, if he knew about this information, which we have to assume we did.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Well, that’s just absurd. That shows a real lack of understanding about child molestation.
There are many people who never report molestation, who walk around as adults with a terrible secret that they never tell. They protect the perpetrator for years and years, sometimes forever. And they do that because they love the perpetrator. They think they were in love at the time. They blame themselves. And that’s especially true for a 12-year-old boy who clearly did love Michael Jackson. So the fact that he denied it at one point in time doesn’t necessarily mean that these allegations aren’t true when he later reported them.
SCARBOROUGH: Let me bring in Majestik.
Now, Majestik, you’re a confidante of the Jackson family. And I understand you have a statement that you want to read that Michael’s father just wrote.
MAJESTIK MAGNIFICENT, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: No, it’s a not a statement. He just told me, if you all asked me this stuff, he just wanted to let you all know that he stands behind his son 100 percent, and like the world will see, he’ll be cleared of all these allegations.
But let me say this. Joseph is completely correct. I’ve been saying all along that, as time goes on, this case is going to fall apart by the DA. And you see that is exactly what’s happening. And what Lisa Bloom is saying-I know this is killing her. She hates to admit this. But the DA really-he’s going to look to the whole world like an idiot. He really is.
BLOOM: I don’t have any investment in how the DA looks or on the outcome of this case, but I do have an investment in debunking myths about child molestation.
I am concerned that people not misunderstand what’s going on in a case like this or in any case where a child might have been abused. I think it’s important for this kid to have a day in court. And, my goodness, it’s awfully early to be starting about a death knell or nails in the coffin. The case hasn’t even been born yet, hasn’t even been charged or filed yet.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: That has been your problem all along. I’ve been saying this to you all the time. I said, Lisa, let’s wait. But, no, you already convicted Michael.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: That’s absurd. I’ve said he was guilty.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Everybody, we’re going to bring in Stacy Brown. He’s another family friend.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Now, how are the Jacksons reacting to the DA’s statement? And now Majestik said we need to wait for all the information to get out. Do we need to wait for all the information to get out before this case is dropped?
STACY BROWN, JACKSON FAMILY FRIEND: Well, I think the family is disappointed that even still after this bombshell, the DA refused to throw in the towel. He knows he doesn’t have a case.
Lisa pointed out something that I think is very interesting, when she said this could have happened after this investigation. Now, Michael Jackson-one thing he’s not is stupid. And if he was a child molester, which this is proven that he’s not, why would he molest this child after this investigation, knowing that the investigation is going on?
BLOOM: But child molestation is not a rational act. Why does he sleep with hundreds of boys after he was accused in 1993? That shows his level of irrationality.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Lisa, that’s what you’re saying.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Lisa-you’re wrong, Lisa. He’s never said he slept with thousands of boys.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Stacy, I want to ask you about the Jacksons. Now, you’ve talked to the Jackson family today. Did they expect the charges to be dropped after this document was released?
BROWN: Absolutely. Why shouldn’t they have?
After this document from an official government agency cleared Michael Jackson, why would not-why would they not expect this to be dropped? Tom Sneddon, I’m sure, was somewhere in his office trying to figure out a way in which he can still keep this thing going. And that’s exactly what he’s doing.
SCARBOROUGH: Anne, let me bring you back in here. We’ve always got to balance-like Lisa says, in cases like this, we’ve got to balance not only the rights of the accused, but we also have to worry with the rights of the child and protecting children.
Do you think, at this stage, that the DA should drop the charges against Michael Jackson or continue the investigation?
BREMNER: Well, let’s assume they found something in a search warrant. Evidence doesn’t lie. Witnesses can and do. Then the answer is no. If there’s something else out there, then I think they...
SCARBOROUGH: You need physical evidence that there may have been sexual contact between the two?
BREMNER: Or of any letters, pornography, things like that that were identified by the boy.
If that’s there, then he should fully investigate the case. But if there’s nothing else-and I have great respect for Lisa. But I’ve prosecuted these kinds of cases. And I’ve defended them. And it’s very unusual for there to be this kind of denial with child welfare, with full investigation, and then the case going forward.
So, if there’s something to look at, go ahead. But we have a presumption of innocence in this country. People have fought and died for it.
MAGNIFICENT: Exactly.
BREMNER: And I think this should-at some point, it’s got to be over if there isn’t a case.
SCARBOROUGH: Lisa Bloom, let’s take a step back. The news seems to keep getting worse for the prosecutor’s case. You’ve got the mother’s credibility that’s been called in to question. And now Jackson’s been cleared by a state agency, the LAPD. Where does the DA go from here? And when do they throw in the towel, if ever?
BLOOM: Joe, I’ve got to tell you, the reports of the death of this case are greatly premature. The DA has not even filed formal charges yet. That’s supposed to happen next week. And then the case will go forward.
It’s much too early to say that this case is over with. Those charges will be filed. There will be a preliminary hearing. There will be a trial. And all of the evidence on both sides will be heard.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: You have to really examine as to why he hasn’t he filed these charges yet.
MAGNIFICENT: Exactly. Yes.
BROWN: Think about it. He’s calling. He’s advertising for witnesses that are not there. You hear reports about thousands of calls to this hot line. Then you hear reports that it’s only been 70.
BLOOM: You know who else advertised for witnesses recently? Mark Geragos, Jackson’s new attorney. Mark Geragos advertised for witnesses in the Scott Peterson case. Lots of people do in high-profile cases.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: They ask for witnesses
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: There’s nothing wrong with that.
SCARBOROUGH: We won’t veer off into the Laci Peterson trial quite yet.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: But coming up next on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY, much more on the Michael Jackson case and the report that may help clear him.
Plus, later:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORE: The only major candidate for the nomination of my party that had the good judgment, experience and good sense to feel and see and articulate the right choice was Howard Dean.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Some Democrats are calling Al Gore’s motives into question. Why is the former V.P. sticking his neck out for Howard Dean? We’ll debate that.
Plus: James Brown has another reason to feel good. This time, he thinks that the secretary of state, Colin Powell, is going to be giving him a new title. We’ll tell you about the godfather of soul’s new title when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: The Michael Jackson trial of the century. Could a leaked memo clear the superstar?
Much more on that story straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM SNEDDON, SANTA BARBARA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Jackson himself, I believe, has said that this was all done to try to ruin his new C.D. that was coming out or whatever it is he’s doing, like the sheriff and I really are into that kind of music.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Santa Barbara district attorney Tom Sneddon seemed confident when he gave that press conference back in November. But, boy, what a difference a month makes.
Stacy, is this battle between Sneddon and Jackson so personal that you believe the DA’s office will never back down, regardless of what evidence comes out between now and the trial?
BROWN: Absolutely.
I think, obviously, in Tom Sneddon’s statement, he was extremely arrogant. Even the statement today, to come out and dismiss a government agency’s report to find that Michael Jackson-clearing Michael Jackson of these charges, to come out and make the statement that he said that it’s insignificant. And then that press conference, that’s such a joke. Yes, this is personal. You could tell it’s personal. It was personal in ’93. It’s personal in 2003.
And, yes, he will continue to move forward, regardless. I think he’s
” I think, though, he is looking for a way to punt this and can’t quite find a way.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: You’re right. You’re right.
SCARBOROUGH: Do you agree with that, Anne?
BREMNER: I think that it is personal and this case is about motives, the motive of Tom Sneddon, that he wants to prosecute Michael Jackson at any cost, the motive of the mother, which is money, money and more money, and the motive of the child, to please his mother. Those, at least, will be argued by the defense.
It hurts his case as a prosecutor for him to be so overzealous and to presumably ignore important information like this.
SCARBOROUGH: Lisa, you know Tom Sneddon. Do you think he’s overzealous? And do you think he’ll ever get to the point where he would drop this case and face public embarrassment?
MAGNIFICENT: I can answer what Lisa is going to say before she answers.
BLOOM: I think it’s absurd to say that he’s overzealous. This is a man who is elected, who is about to retire, and who has a case either based on the evidence or he doesn’t have a case based on the evidence. It’s going to be a jury that decides this case.
But Michael Jackson is the one who wrote a song about Don Sheldon, a thinly veiled reference to Tom Sneddon, referring to his brother being in the KKK. No one ever wonders about whether Michael Jackson has a personal vendetta against this DA. That’s the real question.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Majestik, are the Jacksons convinced-and you know the Jacksons very well.
MAGNIFICENT: Very well.
SCARBOROUGH: Are the Jacksons convinced that this is a personal witch-hunt against Michael and that Sneddon will never drop this case?
MAGNIFICENT: He will try to do this until he can’t breathe anymore.
Let me tell explain this to you all, so you all understand. This man has a personal vendetta. He needs to leave Michael alone. With the new information that came about in the LAPD, he needs to drop these charges, forget it and go and get a life. That’s what he needs to do.
Him, Lisa Bloom, Diane Dimond, all of them need to leave Michael alone and go and get a life. The problem they have, that they don’t have a life and they’re just picking on Michael. It’s terrible. The DA will always, always do this.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: This is the level of intelligent argument you get on the Jackson side. You get personal attacks on reporters.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: It’s the truth.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: When they don’t have the facts, they just do personal attacks on reporters.
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, Lisa, I don’t want to get into a personal attack against you. You were just personally attacked.
I do, though, want to talk about Tom Sneddon. Again, of course, Michael Jackson fired a shot at Sneddon, but it does seem very personal for the DA’s office, doesn’t it?
BLOOM: No, it honestly does not seem personal.
BROWN: Oh, you got to be kidding.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: We don’t know what evidence he has.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: Listen to me, Joe. We don’t know what evidence he has. The case hasn’t even been filed yet.
BROWN: That’s because he has nothing, Lisa. Did you ever think of that, Lisa?
BLOOM: We heard all kinds of rumors about what the evidence is, which I’m not going to report, because it would be irresponsible for me to do that.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: The Jackson people like to talk over people that they disagree with. They like to give personal attacks. But they don’t have a lot of substance. And they don’t seem to be as concerned about children.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: Lisa, you don’t even know the man and you’re making all these allegations. You never even met the man.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: OK, one at a time.
(CROSSTALK)
MAGNIFICENT: You don’t even know the man. Crazy. Crazy.
BLOOM: Why don’t we care about his allegations? And why don’t we care about the allegations of all children who claim molestation?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Well, Lisa, this child had said in that document, in that report that we found today, that was released by the Smoking Gun today, the child himself said, Michael Jackson never did anything to me. The child’s mother-the child’s mother said he never did anything.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: He said it in February. And these incidents are after February.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Last week, we told you about a report out in “The L.A. Times” that said the alleged victim’s brother may have witnessed one of the incidents. But the memo says this-quote-”The brother denied sex abuse and expressed fondness for the entertainer.”
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Let me go back to you, Anne.
Will the DA be able to overcome reasonable doubt in light of this new revelation?
BREMNER: I don’t think so. I have the report. It was-all allegations were flatly denied, not only by the purported victim, but by his brother and his mother.
And you also have the issue about the motives of the various people
involved. And then the question is, is there any evidence? And I’m just
talking about the system. I’m not saying, do you know Michael? Did he
write a song that says, leave him alone? Does he not like the DA? Does
the DA have a personal motive? This is a case about, what is the evidence
and what’s a jury going to believe
BLOOM: That’s right.
SCARBOROUGH: Let me go back to you, Lisa, and ask you the same question.
It’s going to be extremely difficult-forget about what we think about Michael Jackson. Forget about what you think as a victims rights attorney.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Isn’t it going to be extraordinarily difficult for a DA to overcome the reasonable doubt standard, when you’ve got the mother, the victim, the alleged victim, and the child all contradicting themselves?
BLOOM: Well, in February, they were saying that there was no abuse.
The DA says the molestation happened after February.
That’s a little fact that everyone is choosing to ignore here. We don’t know. I can’t make a determination now about whether the DA is going to overcome reasonable doubt at trial, because I haven’t seen the evidence yet. And it would be irresponsible for me to reach a conclusion at this point. All I’m saying is, we have to keep in mind that the victim in this case, the alleged victim, is a child. And a child sexual abuse is different than a robbery.
Children report abuse differently than a stranger reporting a robbery against someone else. They will often deny it. They will also cover for the perpetrator. They will often protect, because they love the perpetrator.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Right. And that’s something we can all agree with here, regardless of how we feel. It is a very, very complicated matter, when you start talking about issues like this.
Majestik, let me go to you and ask you a personal question.
MAGNIFICENT: Go ahead.
SCARBOROUGH: How is the Jackson family responding to today’s news? Do they feel vindicated?
MAGNIFICENT: They feel that they expected something like this to happen all along. All the family members always said that Michael is innocent. And, as time goes on, they will see that he will be cleared. And it’s going to be more things coming out then this. You will see.
As time goes on, there will be more evidence coming out to prove that Michael is innocent. The DA can hang it up. He can really-he really can give it up.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Same question for you, Stacy. How is Michael Jackson and the family feeling tonight?
BROWN: Well, I think they’re feeling really good about the fact that the truth is coming out now, and that it’s vindicated Michael.
I think a question for Lisa and everyone else is that I would like to see someone come forward without first going to a civil attorney first. If someone molested my child, I’m not going to a civil attorney. I’m going to the proper authorities.
MAGNIFICENT: Exactly.
BLOOM: Yes, you know what? Michael Jackson has his teams of attorneys. There’s nothing wrong with a kid or anyone in this country going to an attorney and finding out what their rights are. That’s why we have attorneys.
BROWN: But not first. Lisa, go to the police first.
(CROSSTALK)
BLOOM: This kid did not ask for any money.
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: One final question for you, Stacy. Will the Jackson family be holding a press conference in the next 24 to 48 hours?
BROWN: From what I understand, yes. And they’re going to address this issue. They should. And I’m really hoping that it does happen, that they all are there in unison, as they belong, because this has to go away, and now’s the time.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, thank you so much. I appreciate you being here.
I’d like to thank Lisa Bloom, Anne Bremner, Majestik Magnificent, and Stacy Brown.
And now it’s time for a “Flyover”
Source: http://www.msnbc.com/news/1003660.asp