Chandler and Schwartz convo (Redemption) - TRANSCRIPT

[annelise]

who is number 22? Bob Jones?? cause he didn't retract in court he just wouldn't want to take any responsabilities to what he wrote: there was an email that was not supposed to be shown when he said that he saw Michael licked the head of Gavin, and said "he did it in the other case too" why would he write that if he didn't know it was gonna be shown?

The thing, once again, is I wonder where all thoses details come from, how can you write such a fictionnal story? but if Jordan story is true we are not talking about an affair but pedophilia and then there is nothing else to support it (no child porn, no other victims...) so most of the time i figure this is just impossible but then sometimes i have a little doubt and I am happy i can state it here without being attacked.There are tons of evidence or lack of to prove Michael's guilt but do they all lie? is it possible? i guess

For the movie "men in thighs" yes Evan wrote it i downloaded it and he is in the credit, on imdb as well. And I think that's the script that Jordan got an involvment with, actually didn't Jordan said that he was calling him his lucky star because the script he wrote got bought??? I think i've read that in "MJ was my lover" (i've read it as well) but not "all my glitters".

 

[shelly]

who is number 22? Bob Jones?? cause he didn't retract in court he just wouldn't want to take any responsabilities to what he wrote: there was an email that was not supposed to be shown when he said that he saw Michael licked the head of Gavin, and said "he did it in the other case too" why would he write that if he didn't know it was gonna be shown?

The thing, once again, is I wonder where all thoses details come from, how can you write such a fictionnal story? but if Jordan story is true we are not talking about an affair but pedophilia and then there is nothing else to support it (no child porn, no other victims...) so most of the time i figure this is just impossible but then sometimes i have a little doubt and I am happy i can state it here without being attacked.There are tons of evidence or lack of to prove Michael's guilt but do they all lie? is it possible? i guess

For the movie "men in thighs" yes Evan wrote it i downloaded it and he is in the credit, on imdb as well. And I think that's the script that Jordan got an involvment with, actually didn't Jordan said that he was calling him his lucky star because the script he wrote got bought??? I think i've read that in "MJ was my lover" (i've read it as well) but not "all my glitters".

Yes Jones did retract. He said he didn't remember the incident. Even Sneddon he didn't know what Jones was going to say in court because Jones totally changed his story during previous interviews. Jones admitted he had to exagerate things for his book. Jones used the 1993 allegations as an insurance for his job that why he was fired.

For Jordan, we are speaking about coaching. I don't think a 13 years old can create that kind of story but adults can.

 

[shelly]

Ian Halperin and a documentary. For me it could go either way. For starters most of the documents turned over to the court during the 1993 case were from the prosecutor. I never read of any exonerating defense documents.

He said he at first believed Jackson was guilty and then changed his mind. The only court documents about the 1993 allegations, we can read, were leaked to the media by the prosecution side during the 2005 trial that's probably why no court documents from the defense side were leaked. I think there were leaked to hurt him and to taint the future jurors. There are probably a lot more court documents and we know nothing about them.
By the way, if he really saw something why did he say nothing to the police in 1993? Why did he testify in his favor in 1993?

For Orth, I really believe she has a personal agenda. She had no need to be on TV the day after he died and calling him a pedophile. In 2004, she wrote an article where one of his ex lawyer said he gave "jesus juice" to an japanese kid back in 1998 but she never spoke to the kid or the father of the kid. She went on TV saying that when she knew there was going to be a trial and one of the charges were about "jesus juice". She did that one year before the jurors were chosen. Do you really think a responsible journalist would do that? She tried to taint the jury. It shouldn't be legal by the way.

 

[oldschoolfan]

who is number 22? Bob Jones?? cause he didn't retract in court he just wouldn't want to take any responsabilities to what he wrote: there was an email that was not supposed to be shown when he said that he saw Michael licked the head of Gavin, and said "he did it in the other case too" why would he write that if he didn't know it was gonna be shown?

The thing, once again, is I wonder where all thoses details come from, how can you write such a fictionnal story? but if Jordan story is true we are not talking about an affair but pedophilia and then there is nothing else to support it (no child porn, no other victims...) so most of the time i figure this is just impossible but then sometimes i have a little doubt and I am happy i can state it here without being attacked.There are tons of evidence or lack of to prove Michael's guilt but do they all lie? is it possible? i guess

For the movie "men in thighs" yes Evan wrote it i downloaded it and he is in the credit, on imdb as well. And I think that's the script that Jordan got an involvment with, actually didn't Jordan said that he was calling him his lucky star because the script he wrote got bought??? I think i've read that in "MJ was my lover" (i've read it as well) but not "all my glitters".

Well that just ruins the entire freaking movie for me! *punches wall*

As for having doubt, there are always people who will be upset by that, and there are people on this site who probably feel that way, a lot of people weren't to impressed with the Allegations Thread I made recently so that people could discuss the situation. I don't think there is anything wrong with having questions because all you are seeking is a truthful answer, not an answer that's been disillusioned by admiration for Michael. Obviously I am on Michael's side because of the things I stated earlier, and when I look at Michael I just think he does not in any way come across as a person who would do something like that. No I do not think sleeping in a bed makes someone a paedophile. Yes I do think that when you say it it can sound like someone is a paedophile. But hey, I'm 22 and love sleepovers still and I've never laid a finger on anyone in my life. People hear 'sleeping' and 'bed' and 'boys' and think 'sex'.

People try and make him seem as though he is an abuser based not on actual facts, but on the person he is or the person he is made out to be- he looks like a woman, he must be gay, therefore a paedophile. He doesn't have sex with women- therefore he must have sex with boys. His children aren't his- therefore he mustn't like women, only boys. These people are being biased and are judging him on the media Michael Jackson not the real Michael Jackson. The media twists things around to make him look bad and people believe it. So it's a lot easier to believe these things when you've got that view of Michael in your head.

I haven't read All That Glitters, I saw it for sale at a second hand shop and quite seriously nearly bought it just to throw it in the bin. As for Michael Jackson Was My Lover I used to own it but it was so bullshit that I tore it to peices and threw it in the bin. Then I found out it was worth $2,000.
It was a ridiculous book, they said Michael's birthday was 1959 not 1958, I think somewhere in the book (now correct me if I'm wrong) it said that You Are Not Alone was written as a secret message to Jordan (as all the songs on the album were meant to be secret messages to him), because there was a porn movie they watched together with the same name as the song, dispite the fact it was not even written by Michael.
There was also details of abuse given to animals Michael owned, firecrackers being thrown in a lions cage, Michael teaching chimpanzees to masturbate on command and making children watch. Well there has never been any report of animal abuse in regards to any of those things. We've seen these animals, do they look abused to you?
Then there was the money. Now the whole book discribed in huge detail every aspect of their 'relationship' from when they met, conversations, etc. Yet when it came down to why they took the money- no reason was given and the topic was cut rather short.
And to me, the book was written in an almost pornographic love story aspect, but hey, maybe that's just me.

It's fine to have questions on the whole thing, even though a lot of fans will think of it as you're DOUBTING Michael and thinking he is a child molester, to me it is just being unbiased and thinking logically- we were not there, were at the trial, do not know these people, therefore our ideas are not based on complete knowledge, only speculation. I think a lot of views of the cases are one sided and based on what people WANT to believe, the people who hate Micahel think he's a skin bleaching, surgery addicted paedophile, the fans think he's a misunderstood, hurt, innocent human being. It is easy to twist both way. I don't believe Michael did it, but I do not know he didn't do it. I wouldn't stand up for him if I knew he did it or there as proof. The entire thing is just too suss. It is hard to think about, there are times I just wish I DID know so I wouldn't have to speculate.

But it is definitely not impossible that these people lied, Michael has been in court over 1,000 times in his life for so many reasons, and how many people have lied before? Although it's stagering to think about it's the truth, people lie about Michael Jackson for thier own benifit. They said he bleached his skin, he slept in an oxygen chamber, he bought the elephant man bones, he forged a lot of songs when he didn't, his nose fell off, he had a sex change, he was gay, he was bald, he was dying of some disease years ago, he isn't actually dead, that he performed vodoo curses, he went to an African witch to put a curse on Steven Speilberg, the list goes on. So many people have betrayed Michael, written books and done interviews and all that when everything they said was never true. So it's not unlikely they could have lied about the allegations.


Sorry I've been writing so much, I'm gonna stop now...

 

[shelly]

But it is definitely not impossible that these people lied, Michael has been in court over 1,000 times in his life for so many reasons, and how many people have lied before? Although it's stagering to think about it's the truth, people lie about Michael Jackson for thier own benifit. They said he bleached his skin, he slept in an oxygen chamber, he bought the elephant man bones, he forged a lot of songs when he didn't, his nose fell off, he had a sex change, he was gay, he was bald, he was dying of some disease years ago, he isn't actually dead, that he performed vodoo curses, he went to an African witch to put a curse on Steven Speilberg, the list goes on. So many people have betrayed Michael, written books and done interviews and all that when everything they said was never true. So it's not unlikely they could have lied about the allegations.


Sorry I've been writing so much, I'm gonna stop now...

Do not forget all these people were not found believable by law inforcement but only by newspaper. Some of them went to court because of what they were saying and lost their case. These people were found not believable by the FBI, the LAPD, the SBPD and jurors.

 

[annelise]

Well that just ruins the entire freaking movie for me! *punches wall*

As for having doubt, there are always people who will be upset by that, and there are people on this site who probably feel that way, a lot of people weren't to impressed with the Allegations Thread I made recently so that people could discuss the situation. I don't think there is anything wrong with having questions because all you are seeking is a truthful answer, not an answer that's been disillusioned by admiration for Michael.

First I am very sorry about ruining the movie for you, i thought all fans knew that Evan was involved in that.
Second you are right, that there are so many ridiculous things said in the book MJ was my lover (I even remember a scene when they say that Michael used a tampax for pleasure:blink and it was written like a porn fic, first the title itself suggest that it was a gay affair when alledgelly Jordan was a rape victim. That book is considered porn in the uS i think and forbidden to sale. And i think they say that the song TDCAU was written for Jordan, us being them when I think it is pretty obivous that Michael was referring to black people.

I don't think Bob jones retracted concerning the email he said "well if I wrote it, that must be true but i don't remember, i am taking responsibilities for the email" which is not a very clear answer but that is all they could get.

What amazed me is that NO ONE ever accused Michael of anything before they were fired or out of his circle, you know? nobody ever said I am gonna call the police because a pedophile is free in neverland, no they were mad at him for some reasons or another. Notice also that whenever Michael realizes that maybe some people are not really trustee or disapoint him and he stops contact , he is then called by these people a manipulator? Like LMP, the german guys, Evan chandler just to name a few.

Now about the Neverland 5, what are their timeline, when were they fired? they alledged that they were fired because they knew too much and sur Michael in 96 and lost, right? but were they all fired in 93 or some a little bit before?

 

[shelly]

Some of them were fired in 1994 and some of them years before. They never said anything before. Those people who were fired before started saying things to the tabloids and not the police in 1993. People like Mc Manus said he was innocent of the charges before changing their story. One of the bodyguard who were fired kept sending letters because he wanted his job back before saying he was happy to be fired because of what he saw. One of them even filed charges against MJ for psychological trauma just because he didn't like the way MJ looked at him and he asked for 16 millions. Thosse guys were totally nuts.

 

[susanrello]

Did you guys really read MJ was My Lover? Does it sound credible? I mean does it match back to what Jordan told the psychiatrist and in the deposition?

 

[shelly]

Look at the testimony from Chacon one of the Neverland 5

"Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Would you agree that with each interview you do, you add more lurid facts about Mr. Jackson? A. No, sir. Q. You would agree your story about what you claim he did has changed through the years, has it not? A. No, sir. Q. Didn't you just meet with Mr. Sneddon the other day? A. Yes, sir. Q. Didn't you tell Mr. Sneddon you had new facts that you forgot in 1993? MR. SNEDDON: Well, wait a minute. I'm going to object to that question. Your Honor, that's not asked in good faith with regard to the --I can't do it without a speaking objection, but if we could approach the bench, because this is not right. THE COURT: Overruled. The question was, "Did you tell Mr. Sneddon you had new facts that you had forgot in 1993?" THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: You told Mr. Sneddon that you forgot to say certain things in 1993 about Mr. Jackson allegedly molesting young men, true? A. Yes, sir. Q. But now you remembered them in 2005, right? A. Vaguely, yes, sir. Q. And you said the person that remembered them with you is Kassim Abdool, true? A. I haven't talked to Kassim in years. 5240-5241 (15-28 | 1-18

Q. ...You sued Mr. Jackson claiming you were wrongfully terminated, right? A. That's correct, sir. Q. He sued you claiming you had stolen property from him, true? A. That's correct, sir. Q. The jury found you were not wrongfully terminated by Mr. Jackson, correct? A. But we were, sir. Q. Answer my question, please. Did the Santa Maria jury find you were not wrongfully terminated by Mr. Jackson? A. Yes, sir. Q. And they also found you had stolen property from Mr. Jackson, correct? A. But I didn't, sir. Q. Did the Santa Maria jury find you had stolen property from Mr. Jackson? A. Yes, sir. 5202-5203 (24-14)

Q. A judgment was entered against you, Mr. Chacon, for $25,000, the value of what you had stolen, correct? A. For candy bars, sir? Q. A judgment was entered against you for $25,000, the value of what the Court found you had stolen, correct? A. Well, if a candy bar is worth that much, yes, sir. Q. That's not all you owe Mr. Jackson currently, is it? A. No, sir. I don't owe him. Q. In fact, Judge Zel Canter of this court, entered a judgment against you and your co-defendants for $1,473,117.61, correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. He ordered you pay all of Mr. Jackson's legal fees and costs, correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you ever paid any of that judgment, Mr. Chacon? A. No, sir. I filed bankruptcy. 5203-5204 (15-8)

Q. Now, the jury found you not only stole from Mr. Jackson, but you acted maliciously, correct? A. No, sir. Q. Did a judge find you had acted with malice? A. No, sir. Q. Is there a judgment against you for acting with fraud against Mr. Jackson? A. That I know of, no, sir. Q. Would it refresh your recollection to look at the judgment? A. Yes, sir. … Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to look at the judgment against you, Mr. Chacon? A. I looked at that, yes, sir. But I don't remember it. Q. Does it refresh your recollection that there's a judgment against you for fraud and malice -- A. No, sir. Q. -- in favor of Mr. Jackson? A. Yes, sir. Q. You never heard of that before? A. Well, probably, but I don't remember. Q. After a six-month trial, you don't remember? A. Well, it's been 12 years also, sir, or so. 5204-5205 (9-19 | 9-22)
Q. Okay. Mr. Chacon, in late '93 and early '94, you told other people that Michael Jackson was innocent of molestation accusations, didn't you? A. No, sir. Q. Never told that to anyone at the ranch? A. No, sir. 5229 (3-8)

Q. And before you went to Mr. Ring, you had told various people that you never saw anything inappropriate at Neverland, true? A. No, sir. Q. You told various people you'd never seen Michael Jackson molest anybody, true? A. No, sir. Q. So if anybody comes into court and says that, they're just not telling the truth, right? A. That's correct, sir. 5239 (15-24)

Q. Do you remember stipulating and agreeing that you had personally acted with fraud, oppression and malice against Mr. Jackson? A. Probably so, sir. Q. You did that, didn't you? A. No, sir. Q. You didn't stipulate that you had acted with fraud, oppression, and malice against Mr. Jackson in that case? A. Well, yes, sir. 5205-5206 (23-4)

Q. Do you remember telling a therapist you'd rather get a million dollars from Mr. Jackson than work? A. No, sir. Q. Do you remember being evaluated by a Ph.D. named Dr. Scott Gorsuch? A. I don't recall, sir. Q. Do you recall being evaluated by a therapist in that lawsuit? A. Probably at one point, but I don't recall it, sir. 5206 (13-23)

Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: At one point, you asked a Santa Barbara sheriff for money, true? A. I don't recall, sir. Q. Do you recall ever asking Mr. Birchim for some money? A. No, sir. Q. Are you saying it never happened? A. I don't recall, sir. Q. Okay. When did you last talk to Russ Birchim? A. This morning. Q. Where did you talk to him? A. Here at the courthouse. Q. Did you talk about your testimony? A. No, sir. Q. Okay. So you're not denying that you asked him for money and you're not denying he gave it to you; you just don't remember, right? A. I don't recall, sir. 5220 (11-28)

 

[oldschoolfan]

First I am very sorry about ruining the movie for you, i thought all fans knew that Evan was involved in that.
Second you are right, that there are so many ridiculous things said in the book MJ was my lover (I even remember a scene when they say that Michael used a tampax for pleasure:blink and it was written like a porn fic, first the title itself suggest that it was a gay affair when alledgelly Jordan was a rape victim. That book is considered porn in the uS i think and forbidden to sale. And i think they say that the song TDCAU was written for Jordan, us being them when I think it is pretty obivous that Michael was referring to black people.

I don't think Bob jones retracted concerning the email he said "well if I wrote it, that must be true but i don't remember, i am taking responsibilities for the email" which is not a very clear answer but that is all they could get.

What amazed me is that NO ONE ever accused Michael of anything before they were fired or out of his circle, you know? nobody ever said I am gonna call the police because a pedophile is free in neverland, no they were mad at him for some reasons or another. Notice also that whenever Michael realizes that maybe some people are not really trustee or disapoint him and he stops contact , he is then called by these people a manipulator? Like LMP, the german guys, Evan chandler just to name a few.

Now about the Neverland 5, what are their timeline, when were they fired? they alledged that they were fired because they knew too much and sur Michael in 96 and lost, right? but were they all fired in 93 or some a little bit before?

You didn't ruin the movie for me don't worry, I already knew about it but I wasn't sure, I thought it was actually Jordan not Evan, but when I didn't see his name I figured he didn't actually have anything to do with it.

As for the book, I don't think I've ever met anyone else who's ever read it! So now I have someone I can discuss it with!
I don't remember the tampax thing, I thought it was enemas he was meant to use, that people would buy them for him and he'd use them in the bathroom to get pleasure from.
I do remember TDCAU, it was meant to be a hidden message of 'they don't care about the two of us and our relationship'.

With people making accusations after they've been fired, I was thinking just that, everyon who has accused Michael has some sort of motive, they were fired or something. They had some sort of reason for revenge. I find it a bit stupid that they say they were fired because they 'knew too much', would Michael be stupid enough to fire someone who knew about the molestation when it would be quite apparent that they'd say something? Why did ALL these people who had suspicions NEVER call the police? Even Bashit, he was so 'concerned' yet he never went to police, just like LaToya he went straight to the media. Newsflash guys- you don't have to wait until you KNOW abuse is happening to go to the police. If you have any sort of suspicion that a child is being abused call the cops and say 'hey I'm a little concerned about this, I think someone just needs to check it out incase somethnig is happening because it's very unnerving'. But no, of course not. Nobody had enough concern for the welfare of these children to do anything about it. Let's all just allow it to happen, let's just have these childrens lives fucked up by the mental torment of this abuse because oh, I don't want to lose my job'. **** that. How is a child of abuse going to take that lack of concern? Well, I can tell you exactly what that feels like, you can be just as spiteful to the people who left you there as you do for the abuser themselves. So I find it ridiculous that ALL these people just ALLOWED it to happen, they just ALLOWED an abuser to abuse, they just ALLOWED him to get away with ruining childrens lives. Let's all just sit back and relax while he's fucking my son up the ass in another room.


I'm getting angry now so I might just stop for a bit. This whole thing just frustrates the hell out of me.

 

[shelly]

Did you guys really read All That Glitters? Does it sound credible?

I just read the first chapter on google book. In my opinion he speaks about his nephew as a sex object.

 

[shelly]

You didn't ruin the movie for me don't worry, I already knew about it but I wasn't sure, I thought it was actually Jordan not Evan, but when I didn't see his name I figured he didn't actually have anything to do with it.

As for the book, I don't think I've ever met anyone else who's ever read it! So now I have someone I can discuss it with!
I don't remember the tampax thing, I thought it was enemas he was meant to use, that people would buy them for him and he'd use them in the bathroom to get pleasure from.
I do remember TDCAU, it was meant to be a hidden message of 'they don't care about the two of us and our relationship'.

With people making accusations after they've been fired, I was thinking just that, everyon who has accused Michael has some sort of motive, they were fired or something. They had some sort of reason for revenge. I find it a bit stupid that they say they were fired because they 'knew too much', would Michael be stupid enough to fire someone who knew about the molestation when it would be quite apparent that they'd say something? Why did ALL these people who had suspicions NEVER call the police? Even Bashit, he was so 'concerned' yet he never went to police, just like LaToya he went straight to the media. Newsflash guys- you don't have to wait until you KNOW abuse is happening to go to the police. If you have any sort of suspicion that a child is being abused call the cops and say 'hey I'm a little concerned about this, I think someone just needs to check it out incase somethnig is happening because it's very unnerving'. But no, of course not. Nobody had enough concern for the welfare of these children to do anything about it. Let's all just allow it to happen, let's just have these childrens lives fucked up by the mental torment of this abuse because oh, I don't want to lose my job'. **** that. How is a child of abuse going to take that lack of concern? Well, I can tell you exactly what that feels like, you can be just as spiteful to the people who left you there as you do for the abuser themselves. So I find it ridiculous that ALL these people just ALLOWED it to happen, they just ALLOWED an abuser to abuse, they just ALLOWED him to get away with ruining childrens lives. Let's all just sit back and relax while he's fucking my son up the ass in another room.


I'm getting angry now so I might just stop for a bit. This whole thing just frustrates the hell out of me.

Look at the Neverland 5 testimony, they are a bunch of crazy people. One of them even tried to extort money from children in her own family.

 

[oldschoolfan]

I just read the first chapter on google book. In my opinion he speaks about his nephew as a sex object.

Are you able to quote any of the book? I have kind of wanted to read it just to see if there were any contradicting points with the one I did read.

 

[shelly]

Are you able to quote any of the book? I have kind of wanted to read it just to see if there were any contradicting points with the one I did read.

No but he said something like his nephew was the most beautiful teenager MJ ever saw. I don't want to spend money on that garbage. The uncle is an opportunist asshole in my opinion. He is making money on the molestation of his nephew, he makes me sick.

 

[annelise]

talking about books, how do think taraborelli is responsible for the accusations? I mean in his very first edition of the book he does have a lot of innuendos like he is interviewing some child (off course 12 y.o boy) and the kid is saying "they were nothing sexual going on" out of the blue and then he said that Michael went with a friend (12 y.o boy) to get a hand vibrator to the pharmacy. Then he said that Emmanuel Lewis and Michael rent a room in a hotel as father and son and then the mother was concerned about their relationship. That people were questionning the fact that Michael was friend during the bad era with Jimmy schafeluck. And he is the one that keep calling Michael's friends "special friends" Could he have given the idea to Evan??

 

[shelly]

talking about books, how do think taraborelli is responsible for the accusations? I mean in his very first edition of the book he does have a lot of innuendos like he is interviewing some child (off course 12 y.o boy) and the kid is saying "they were nothing sexual going on" out of the blue and then he said that Michael went with a friend (12 y.o boy) to get a hand vibrator to the pharmacy. Then he said that Emmanuel Lewis and Michael rent a room in a hotel as father and son and then the mother was concerned about their relationship. That people were questionning the fact that Michael was friend during the bad era with Jimmy schafeluck. And he is the one that keep calling Michael's friends "special friends" Could he have given the idea to Evan??

I don't think he is responsible for anything. I do think MJ brought this upon himself. I mean he was one of the most famous people on earth and had a relationship with children which is difficult to understand for most adults. He was an easy target because of that.
Sleeping in bed with kids create situation where you can be accused of something even though you did nothing wrong.

However, I do think some of the stories we heard were created because of the media. I don't think we would have stories from the Neverland 5 if the media were not willing to pay them.

 

[annelise]

Did you guys really read MJ was My Lover? Does it sound credible? I mean does it match back to what Jordan told the psychiatrist and in the deposition?

I have only see parts of the deposition so I can't really tell you. Is the book credible? yes simply because it is detailed but it is utterly ridiculous. Like the tampax thing (Michael putting it in his anus for pleasure), the fact that technically Jordan didn't do anything to Michael but only Michael did something to him (oral sex, hand job) it sounds sometimes like Michael was the one being molested by jordan.
Off course it depicts Michael as being completely obsess with jordan and being in love and Jordan being in love as well. Michael hurts the animals and tought them how to masturbate and want the kids to watch it. How they had 10 "commandments" that Michael had Jordan to repeat each day like to not got out with a heiffer, never grow up, always love me can't remember the rest. That Jordan watch brett being molested by Michael (Michael fingering him and Brett making little sounds like he liked it "when it was obvious he was hurt")
What struck me as strange is that at some point Jordan asks him if it is wrong what they are doing and Michael said "no people are conditionned to believe it is wrong..." Michael did talk in an interview about being conditionned but about something completely different so did Evan/guiterrez copied that talk and made into something else, applied into something sinister?

 

[shelly]

I have only see parts of the deposition so I can't really tell you. Is the book credible? yes simply because it is detailed but it is utterly ridiculous. Like the tampax thing (Michael putting it in his anus for pleasure), the fact that technically Jordan didn't do anything to Michael but only Michael did something to him (oral sex, hand job) it sounds sometimes like Michael was the one being molested by jordan.
Off course it depicts Michael as being completely obsess with jordan and being in love and Jordan being in love as well. Michael hurts the animals and tought them how to masturbate and want the kids to watch it. How they had 10 "commandments" that Michael had Jordan to repeat each day like to not got out with a heiffer, never grow up, always love me can't remember the rest. That Jordan watch brett being molested by Michael (Michael fingering him and Brett making little sounds like he liked it "when it was obvious he was hurt")
What struck me as strange is that at some point Jordan asks him if it is wrong what they are doing and Michael said "no people are conditionned to believe it is wrong..." Michael did talk in an interview about being conditionned but about something completely different so did Evan/guiterrez copied that talk and made into something else, applied into something sinister?

The whole story is bullshit. MJ never molested Barnes.

 

[oldschoolfan]

Another thing that I just remembered reading in MJWML, was Michael's apparent hate for certain people. It said Michael hated women and referred to them as heifers, and he hated black people and mexican/spanish, or something like that. Then it said that Jordan had found Michael's comments confusing because he himself was hispanic and why would Michael say those things yet be doing what he was doing. It almost sounded as though they were trying to imply Michael as a hateful person and were making excuses for the things it was really contradicting, you know what I mean?

 

[annelise]

Another thing that I just remembered reading in MJWML, was Michael's apparent hate for certain people. It said Michael hated women and referred to them as heifers, and he hated black people and mexican/spanish, or something like that. Then it said that Jordan had found Michael's comments confusing because he himself was hispanic and why would Michael say those things yet be doing what he was doing. It almost sounded as though they were trying to imply Michael as a hateful person and were making excuses for the things it was really contradicting, you know what I mean?

Is Jordan mexican? his mother is eurasian and that it why he is dark, no? they were probably trying to explain why Michael was hateful but still in love with a kid that wasn't white:idontknow, the Michael they picture is 100% different from the Michael we see (hateful of animals, racist, pedophile, hater of woman)

To Shelly: yes that is the most unbelievable part, it also says that Michael was crazy about Mac's mouth.

What I wondered about is why there is nothing more than that, let me explain :if they are making stories up completely (in the tabloids ,not in court as you will need physical evidence) why not talk about anal rape or something but even jason francia testimony is silly (Michael playing with his testicules and that is it) that is why I believed that maybe the alledged victims believe it maybe Jason talked about watching tv with michael and being spooned (nothing sexual) and then the police officers by asking over and over again and telling him that he doesn't want to remember created the story. As I said a lot of testimony or articles are not that bad per se but they make it look so sinister with their innuendos