Chandler and Schwartz convo (Redemption) - TRANSCRIPT

[susanrello]

I don't understand how Jordan could be dark. His mother is half white half asian, and his father is white. The kid was3/4 white. He doesn't have black or hispanic in him, yet the grown up pictures I see of him on the internet he looks very african american to me.

 

[oldschoolfan]

Is Jordan mexican? his mother is eurasian and that it why he is dark, no? they were probably trying to explain why Michael was hateful but still in love with a kid that wasn't white:idontknow, the Michael they picture is 100% different from the Michael we see (hateful of animals, racist, pedophile, hater of woman)

I'm not sure exactly, I haven't read this book in about 6 years so I'm a little shady (and possibly wrong) on certain specific details, I just remember Jordan being confused that Michael was hating on these people but happy to be in love with him.

That's the other thing I find odd, there are 2 completely different Michael Jacksons- the Michael that loves everyone and everything, is spiritual, giving, fun, shy, etc. and the racist, surgery addicted, manipulative paedophile. While I do believe Michael played on certain aspects to come across different (I personally think it was because he knew he was an influence on people and didn't want younger fans to know he swore occasionally, drank alcohol and was interested in women), but I find it hard to believe Michael would be this horrible person they try and make him to be.

 

[susanrello]

Another thing, I thought You are not alone was written by R. Kelly. How could Michael have written it for Jordan as a secret message

 

[annelise]

That's the other thing I find odd, there are 2 completely different Michael Jacksons- the Michael that loves everyone and everything, is spiritual, giving, fun, shy, etc. and the racist, surgery addicted, manipulative paedophile. While I do believe Michael played on certain aspects to come across different (I personally think it was because he knew he was an influence on people and didn't want younger fans to know he swore occasionally, drank alcohol and was interested in women), but I find it hard to believe Michael would be this horrible person they try and make him to be.

Well Michael on a lot of aspects didn't want to come across as different necessarly, i mean he didn't swear publicly and drink alcohol occasionnaly, his friends knew he was just not getting drunk in public in front of papz like celebrities do. So people concluded that he didn't swear and never drink alcohol. And about woman, no woman had ever said anything about being with Michael other than LMP so it is easy to believe that he was not interested in them...

 

[annelise]

Another thing, I thought You are not alone was written by R. Kelly. How could Michael have written it for Jordan as a secret message

yep that is stupid, it is like Tatum saying that Michael wrote SOOML for her

edit: and Jordan' mother is dark , never saw Evan

 

[susanrello]

Well if he was a pedophile then why write such a pining song for Tatum.

 

[annelise]

Well if he was a pedophile then why write such a pining song for Tatum.

well first he didn"t write it then Michael was sometimes straight to the media when that suited a particular storyline then he was asexual, then impotent and then a travestite, then homosexual and then they were wondering what really was going on between him and bubbles

I really believe that if a 13 yo girl would have accused Michael of that, much less people would have bought it. Everytime they show a picture of Jordan they always show one when he is "pretty" and say that he was effeminate, i even heard bisexual! they played on homophobia

 

[crazychick!!!]

I don't understand how Jordan could be dark. His mother is half white half asian, and his father is white. The kid was3/4 white. He doesn't have black or hispanic in him, yet the grown up pictures I see of him on the internet he looks very african american to me.

June is half Back and half Asian.

 

[shelly]

Is Jordan mexican? his mother is eurasian and that it why he is dark, no? they were probably trying to explain why Michael was hateful but still in love with a kid that wasn't white:idontknow, the Michael they picture is 100% different from the Michael we see (hateful of animals, racist, pedophile, hater of woman)

To Shelly: yes that is the most unbelievable part, it also says that Michael was crazy about Mac's mouth.

What I wondered about is why there is nothing more than that, let me explain :if they are making stories up completely (in the tabloids ,not in court as you will need physical evidence) why not talk about anal rape or something but even jason francia testimony is silly (Michael playing with his testicules and that is it) that is why I believed that maybe the alledged victims believe it maybe Jason talked about watching tv with michael and being spooned (nothing sexual) and then the police officers by asking over and over again and telling him that he doesn't want to remember created the story. As I said a lot of testimony or articles are not that bad per se but they make it look so sinister with their innuendos

I think you are right about that, look at the Jason Francia testimony:

Q. Do you remember stating in that interview, "They made me come out with a lot more stuff I didn't want to say. They kept pushing. I wanted to get up and hit them in the head"? Do you remember that?
A. No.

Q. Would it refresh your recollection if I show you the transcript of that?
A. Probably not. But you can show it to me anyway.

MR. MESEREAU: May I approach, Your Honor?

THE COURT: Yes.

MR. ZONEN: What page, Counsel?

MR. MESEREAU: 30.

THE WITNESS: Okay.

Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Have you had a chance to look at that page of the transcript?
A. I have.

Q. Does it refresh your recollection about what you've said?
A. No, it does not.

Q. Do you remember anything you said in that interview at the moment?
A. Not really. (4908-4909 (20-15)) "

From a court document about the jason Francia interview:

"Okay, but what I am getting at is that maybe I am not being obvious enough. What I am saying is maybe he put his hands someplace on you where he shouldn’t have. Maybe he put his hands on you someplace that made you feel uncomfortable. And that’s why you are not remembering. …And I think of what you doing is (sic) tickling and all this stuff, is trying, forcing yourself not to remember.

Det. Neglia: I realize how hard this is. I realize how painful it is to think of these things you tried so hard not to think about but you are doing dine. And you are also helping the kid that he is bothering now.

Jason Francia: What do you mean he’s bothering?

Det. Birchim: He’s doing the same thing.

Jason Francia: Macauly Culkin.

Det. Neglia: Only he’s getting a lot more into it. Like your mother pulled you out of there. Macaulay’s mother is not going to pull him out of there. They are feeding him.

Det. Birchim: He’s doing worse stuff.

Det. Neglia: It’s much worse with him.

Det. Neglia: He’s a junkie now, he gets arrested, he doesn’t act or anything. He gets high. He packs his nose with cocaine and he’s going to die by the time he is 22 years old.

Jason Francia: How old is he?

Det. Neglia: About 21. But that’s the kind of life he is living, and it’s got to do with being exposed to people like this, and having nobody to protect them and to take them out.

Det. Birchim: Like you had your mom.

Det. Neglia: Like your mom pulled you out, and you’re, you’re candid, and you’re honesty with us is going to help us. To pull the next kid out, it might even be too late for Macauly already. But these kids that he’s traveling with are on tour right now. Maybe we can pull them out of it… "

I am sorry for my long post but I find this interview very scary. They were really trying to crucify him.

 

[shelly]

I also found that:

"Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: And at one point a sheriff actually used a curse word to get you to say something, correct?
A. I don't remember that, but you could show me the thing.

Q. Okay. But as you sit here today, you don't remember, right?
A. I don't remember the four-letter word. Everybody in junior high cussed.

Q. How about the word "bullshit"?
A. What about it?

Q. Do you remember a sheriff telling you that?
A. I don't, but I think I remember listening to it on the tape.

Q. Do you remember in that interview one sheriff telling you, "Mr. Jackson is a molester," and the other saying, "He makes great music, he's a great guy, bullshit"? Do you remember that?
A. I don't remember that specifically, but I think I remember hearing it on the tape, which was my voice, or his voice.

Q. You do remember a sheriff's voice saying that, right?
A. I don't remember right now of '93, but I remember listening to the tape.

Q. Okay. And a sheriff said that to you, correct?
A. I believe so. (4927-4928 (2-28 | 1-13))

 

[annelise]

exactly Jason's testimony is the more obvious in creating a victim. They don't take no for an answer, they tried to make him feel guilty if he doesn't say anything, and they took one apparently innocent event (watching tv) and made it sinister, i wouldn't be surprised really if Jason believed it somehow. Even his mother sounded paranoid during her testimony when she said something like "everybody was saying that he was a molester and my son spent some time with him" god knows what she told him. But she did take money so in the end she doesn't believe it, i hope so at least.

A lot of it had to do with paranoia and hysteria, another bodyguard said, when asked if he saw anything inapropriate "no but everybody is saying he did it" and he is an adult! Then he admits that he didn't see anything himself (that was in Mary fisher's article).
The question is concerning that chandler case; did Evan wrote a script (doesn't look like it as he seems at some point to believe his son was molested) so where does the story come from?

reminds me of that kid in Canada that made false allegations, he knew the names of the employee at Neverland and stuff but he never met Michael; how is that possble??

 

[shelly]

exactly Jason's testimony is the more obvious in creating a victim. They don't take no for an answer, they tried to make him feel guilty if he doesn't say anything, and they took one apparently innocent event (watching tv) and made it sinister, i wouldn't be surprised really if Jason believed it somehow. Even his mother sounded paranoid during her testimony when she said something like "everybody was saying that he was a molester and my son spent some time with him" god knows what she told him. But she did take money so in the end she doesn't believe it, i hope so at least.

A lot of it had to do with paranoia and hysteria, another bodyguard said, when asked if he saw anything inapropriate "no but everybody is saying he did it" and he is an adult! Then he admits that he didn't see anything himself (that was in Mary fisher's article).
The question is concerning that chandler case; did Evan wrote a script (doesn't look like it as he seems at some point to believe his son was molested) so where does the story come from?

reminds me of that kid in Canada that made false allegations, he knew the names of the employee at Neverland and stuff but he never met Michael; how is that possble??

I don't think Francia believes it now because he obviously didn't believe it in 1994. He said that:
Q. Do you remember stating in that interview, "They made me come out with a lot more stuff I didn't want to say. They kept pushing. I wanted to get up and hit them in the head"? Do you remember that?
A. No.
I think he was subpoaned so he had to stick to his story but the jury didn't believe him.

There is also the Corey Feldman which is very interesting. They were creating victims in 1994.

http://site2.mjeol.com/pdf/mj-news/corey-feldman-defended-jackson-in-1993-police-interview-cj.pdf

 

[Teva]

I remember reading somewhere where an officer from the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office said that they believed MJ molested 7-8 boys. I know they were talking about the following 6:
Jordan Chandler
Jason Francia
Gavin Arvizo
Mac Culkin
Brett Barnes
Wade Robson
Does anyone have any idea who the other 2 are?

 

[shelly]

I remember reading somewhere where an officer from the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Office said that they believed MJ molested 7-8 boys. I know they were talking about the following 6:
Jordan Chandler
Jason Francia
Gavin Arvizo
Mac Culkin
Brett Barnes
Wade Robson
Does anyone have any idea who the other 2 are?

Jimmy Schafesuck and another one. I don't remember his name but according to Mesereau's closing argument, they both denied being molested.

 

[Teva]

Jimmy Schafesuck? Wasn't he married at Neverland. I think I read that somewhere. I don't know how true.

 

[candles]

i'm not going to get into this whole post. i really respect everyone's opinions and i dont fault your need to find out the truth because i know there's this need to, in some ways, want to justify your love for michael. nothing is black and white in this world, and as a skeptic by nature, i never accept anything at face value.

what's frustrating to me is the fact that we might never REALLY know. i think a unique factor of being an MJ fan is that we hold him in our hearts. I had asked my sister the other day if she thought he was innocent and she said, 'it doesn't matter to me' because for her its strictly the music but for some of us, for some reason, feel some sort of deepness towards Michael which is why I understand why ya'll are dissecting the issue.

It seems that the fact that there was no evidence just isn't enough. The first allegations are always going to be sketchy because they were settled out of court. The fact that he was acquitted of all charges has proven that it's still not enough.

Like someone has stated before, I wish that there was a definite black and white thing that could prove he didn't do it because even if his legacy will live forever, this molestation issue will follow.

I dont really know how to even close my words lol but I've come to accept that people will just ALWAYS be skeptical and I understand it isn't all just from malice.

Well Michael on a lot of aspects didn't want to come across as different necessarly, i mean he didn't swear publicly and drink alcohol occasionnaly, his friends knew he was just not getting drunk in public in front of papz like celebrities do. So people concluded that he didn't swear and never drink alcohol. And about woman, no woman had ever said anything about being with Michael other than LMP so it is easy to believe that he was not interested in them...

As far as Michael acting differently, i can understand why he would, to be honest. My theory is, he's been having to be two people all his life. The one showbusiness told him to be and the one that was kind of lost and confused. If your life becomes your work and you practically have no private life for so many years, how do you know how to define yourself? It's tricky when you've never had that chance to be around people who could let you figure out who you are in a normal setting.

And as far as the women thing, I truly do believe Michael was interested in women, at least physically. It was all the extra baggage that I think he thought they carried that might've discouraged him.

 

[crazychick!!!]

Jimmy Schafesuck? Wasn't he married at Neverland. I think I read that somewhere. I don't know how true.

Yea. He was married there. It's mentioned in Aphrodite Jones' book, and it was also mentioned during the trial.

Jason Spencer is the other person that the prosecution were claiming was a victim, but he denied it as well.

 

[Teva]

This is becoming more and more twisted. Who the hell is Jason Spencer? Where did he come from? Who is this kid?

Someone said why would MJ allow himself to be photographed if he had something to hide. True. However, Ian Halperin says in his book that MJ's lawyers did not know what the prosecution was looking for, that is why they agreed to the strip search. I find this hard to believe. As Michael Jackson you should have top notch representation. NOT KNOW should never be a possibility.

A poster said that they were 2 MJs. I am so with you on that. A private and a public persona, and very seldomn did the 2 meet. I think he tried to keep up an image for his fans because that was what they knew, loved and accepted. LMP was probably the only, or one of very few who got a glimpse of all sides.

 

[crazychick!!!]

^^^
I don't know much about Jason Spencer. All I know is that the prosecution was claiming he was a victim, when he never made any allegations in the first place.

And the police don't have to tell a suspect exactly what they're looking for. All they have to tell them is that there is going to be a search.

 

[oldschoolfan]

i'm not going to get into this whole post. i really respect everyone's opinions and i dont fault your need to find out the truth because i know there's this need to, in some ways, want to justify your love for michael. nothing is black and white in this world, and as a skeptic by nature, i never accept anything at face value.

what's frustrating to me is the fact that we might never REALLY know. i think a unique factor of being an MJ fan is that we hold him in our hearts. I had asked my sister the other day if she thought he was innocent and she said, 'it doesn't matter to me' because for her its strictly the music but for some of us, for some reason, feel some sort of deepness towards Michael which is why I understand why ya'll are dissecting the issue.

It seems that the fact that there was no evidence just isn't enough. The first allegations are always going to be sketchy because they were settled out of court. The fact that he was acquitted of all charges has proven that it's still not enough.

Like someone has stated before, I wish that there was a definite black and white thing that could prove he didn't do it because even if his legacy will live forever, this molestation issue will follow.

I dont really know how to even close my words lol but I've come to accept that people will just ALWAYS be skeptical and I understand it isn't all just from malice.




As far as Michael acting differently, i can understand why he would, to be honest. My theory is, he's been having to be two people all his life. The one showbusiness told him to be and the one that was kind of lost and confused. If your life becomes your work and you practically have no private life for so many years, how do you know how to define yourself? It's tricky when you've never had that chance to be around people who could let you figure out who you are in a normal setting.

And as far as the women thing, I truly do believe Michael was interested in women, at least physically. It was all the extra baggage that I think he thought they carried that might've discouraged him.

:8-26-03respect: I totally agree with everything you said, although am not SKEPTICAL as to wether or not Michael is innocent, I do just want to know I'm not standing up for someone who has done a terrible crime because it's a touchy subject for me and because I as I said can only be unbiased with the situation.
This whole thing is so crazy that getting away with it seems just as possible as all the people who could have lied and schemed against his innocence, it's all so ridiculous. I think one reason people want a truthful answer is just for some closure on SOMETHING, there are so many things we fight for and it's exhausting, having the closure of he didn't commit this crime would be the biggest weight off. It would even give me a bit more closure on his death as well. Of all the things we fight for this is the hardest because it really seals his fate, and there are fans who have really given a lot and dealt with a lot to stand up and fight for him. But what is it we are REALLY fighting for? The reality is we don't know. But can you imagine hearing those words 'Michael Jackson is NOT a child molester'? Although it's unlikely to ever hear, a girl can dream can't she? So much hate towards Michael would be gone. There are always people who will think he's guilty, there are always people who will think he is innocent.