Did Michael see a mental health expert/psychologist?

[Palmyra]

I only created this thread out of worry for Michael, and nothing here is critical of Michael. If I didn't love Michael, I wouldn't bother creating this thread. There is a general stigma against seeking mental health help, but there shouldn't be. I am not calling Michael "crazy." That is ludicrous. Many of us need to see psychologists or psychiatrists, including me.

1. Self-perception. For decades, Michael was getting marriage proposals, was admired by millions of female fans, and always received a ton of attention from women. In light of all of this, Michael should not have felt ugly at all. Tons of women would have loved to have dated him. The only way I can address his lack of self-esteem and devaluation of his own appearance is to say he should have been seeing a psychologist. His own perception of himself was not in line with reality: he was a perfectly good-looking guy according to most people.

2. His poor relationship with his father. This is self explanatory. He should have seen an an expert, because this is clearly something that was bothering him well into his adulthood. I have a terrible relationship with my own father, and I should probably be seeing someone about this.

3. His views of children. Of course, Michael did nothing wrong with children, but when I hear Michael saying that life would no longer be worth living in the absence of children, I am worried that he is describing some kind of obsession. I admire his desire to help poor and sick children (and I absolutely love The Lost Children). If all of my friends and family died, I still wouldn't say life is no longer worth living, because there's always a purpose for everyone in life even without all of the people you love.

Interestingly, when Michael died and could no longer look forward to meeting him, I thought, "What do I do with my life now?" I was so desperately looking forward to meeting Michael, I completely discounted everything else that I wanted to accomplish in life. I lost one of my life goals, but it wasn't the only one.

I posted this thread because I wanted Michael to be completely content with life and himself, wake up each morning smiling, and go to sleep with a smile. His own words prove that he needed to see a mental health expert.

 

[Saphster]

I only created this thread out of worry for Michael, and nothing here is critical of Michael. If I didn't love Michael, I wouldn't bother creating this thread. There is a general stigma against seeking mental health help, but there shouldn't be. I am not calling Michael "crazy." That is ludicrous. Many of us need to see psychologists or psychiatrists, including me.

1. Self-perception. For decades, Michael was getting marriage proposals, was admired by millions of female fans, and always received a ton of attention from women. In light of all of this, Michael should not have felt ugly at all. Tons of women would have loved to have dated him. The only way I can address his lack of self-esteem and devaluation of his own appearance is to say he should have been seeing a psychologist. His own perception of himself was not in line with reality: he was a perfectly good-looking guy according to most people.

2. His poor relationship with his father. This is self explanatory. He should have seen an an expert, because this is clearly something that was bothering him well into his adulthood. I have a terrible relationship with my own father, and I should probably be seeing someone about this.

3. His views of children. Of course, Michael did nothing wrong with children, but when I hear Michael saying that life would no longer be worth living in the absence of children, I am worried that he is describing some kind of obsession. I admire his desire to help poor and sick children (and I absolutely love The Lost Children). If all of my friends and family died, I still wouldn't say life is no longer worth living, because there's always a purpose for everyone in life even without all of the people you love.

Interestingly, when Michael died and could no longer look forward to meeting him, I thought, "What do I do with my life now?" I was so desperately looking forward to meeting Michael, I completely discounted everything else that I wanted to accomplish in life. I lost one of my life goals, but it wasn't the only one.

I posted this thread because I wanted Michael to be completely content with life and himself, wake up each morning smiling, and go to sleep with a smile. His own words prove that he needed to see a mental health expert.

Excellent post. I agree with all 3. Especially the 1st one and the third. I am not sure if he did. But, I wouldn't be surprised if he did see one at least once in his life. If he had spiritual advisers why wouldn't he have psychologists? I too understood his love for children and him wanting to regain that innocence that he was robbed of. But, there is so much more to live for. I hated hearing him say if if weren't for children that he would kill himself or not have anything to live for. What about the love that other people have for you that aren't children? Do we not matter as well? I understand he felt a certain connection and bond with children that I will probably never fully understand. But, you have to keep living. No matter what happens.

 

[candles]

It's nice to know that there is someone else who has the same thoughts that I've been having, or at least close to.


As far as children, yes I did state in my other post that I don't for one second think Michael did anything wrong with these kids. But I do believe there was a problem that should have been addressed early before he got to the point where he thought that everyone was wrong and he was right--as far as never wanting to grow up and such. Even saying he would feel safer being buried next to children, I do understand in some ways why he would say that, but someone should have told him that it is not a sin to grow up, to not be a child anymore. And I like your analogy of wanting to meet Michael and now that he's gone, being confused for a while cause I'm sure a lot of fans felt the same way but I wish someone was there to let Michael know that there is a lot to life.

And as far as women/other adults, I think after seeing what he saw as a child he was might have been conditioned to be disgusted by most adults in general and I can't really blame him. It's sad and atrocious people thought he did all these things that pertain to ludicrous accusations of what he did with kids when I think Michael sought refuge in kids to get away from those very things, having to deal with groupies and not knowing whether that was all women (who weren't his mom or sister) wanted from him. Like i said, I wish someone would have told Michael there IS life after childhood. That life doesn't stop once you grow up.

Also, maybe his father's abuse was a contributing factor, that maybe Michael had some sort of fear of growing up and maybe conforming into an adult, which to him might have equated losing innocence and purity and all that. I dont know, but I have wondered.

And if he did get a chance to see a psychologist, how soon should it have happened? How early?
the help should have started early. Really early. When he was saying he didn't have a childhood, people should have listened and I think he was saying this earlier on. They shouldn't have waited till he started purchasing things to make up for what he didn't have as a child. I know Michael was crying out, when he started to be more withdrawn and changed someone should have told him. I'm not sure why he thought that having a childhood would have been the solution to everything, but I do believe that if he had received some sort of help for it early, as far as letting go of not having a childhood, it would have helped a lot. The fact that he said this over and over should have raised a red flag and someone should have tried to help him earlier on instead of ignoring him and thinking 'oh, this too shall pass'.

But you know what I think would have been more helpful than a psychologist? Maybe Joe showing his kids a little bit more love. How I feel that would have made the difference in the world. Michael wouldn't have sought perfection at the degree that he did if the father had allowed these guys to have something of a normal life. Then again, some may argue Joe was doing good by his kids, not wanting them to end up working in a steel mill like him. But a child can only take so much! How much is a child isolated that they equate attention with love. That they think being perfect means more love. It hurt me on the tapes when Michael was like 'if i sharpened my craft more, maybe people would love me more'. It wasn't even about being number one, he just wanted love and that's sad. Someone should have told him that simply smiling or just being who he was was enough to be loved more. But how do you know that when someone is beating you up for trying your best.

Wow I didn't even answer your question lol but I do hope he saw one but to be honest, I doubt it. A friend of mine just told me that I'm 'picking at his brain' too much, and I think I just need to let things be. Sometimes it gets too painful thinking of what could have been done differently. I get angry when people say the way he turned out is his fault. NO. Not all of it. Most of it isn't. The people around him were turning a blind eye and by the time people started to reach out I feel like it was too late but I just dont think people should have given up.

 

[candles]

oh yes and i do think that if michael did cry out, people weren't concerned because what he was saying wasn't paying the bills or coming in the form of a check. hence another reason why he felt a connection with children, because they did not want bills to be payed or checks or any type of favors that involved michael always having to do something for them.

but i wish somehow someway someone convinced him that not every adult wanted a piece of him. it is hard to believe that though, when being used is probably the only life you know.

 

[Saphster]

Wow I didn't even answer your question lol but I do hope he saw one but to be honest, I doubt it. A friend of mine just told me that I'm 'picking at his brain' too much, and I think I just need to let things be. Sometimes it gets too painful thinking of what could have been done differently. I get angry when people say the way he turned out is his fault. NO. Not all of it. Most of it isn't. The people around him were turning a blind eye and by the time people started to reach out I feel like it was too late but I just dont think people should have given up.

Exactly.

You know what? I wonder what Michael would have said or thought if he knew that so many people, his fans, killed themselves after he himself died. Would he still feel the same way he did? Would he find no will to live if all children were gone? I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted fans to kill themselves after he died...

 

[HeavenSent]

Whew, thank you for this thread Palmyra. I have thoughts galore but I'm about to throw this computer out of the window. I hope this posts, because if it doesn't, I give up!

I'll be back later to chime in.

 

[Palmyra]

If he had spiritual advisers why wouldn't he have psychologists?

I don't understand why Michael would be seeing "spiritual" advisers like the Rabbi Shmuwhatever instead of psychologists. Spiritually, Michael was just fine. He was talking to the Rabbi about stuff he should have been telling a psychologist. Any responsible friend should have said to Michael, "Hey, listen. I appreciate that you're telling me this, but you should really follow this up with a visit to a psychologist. It's no big deal. Just go, and see what happens." It appears no one did this for Michael.

What about the love that other people have for you that aren't children? Do we not matter as well?

Exactly! We love Michael genuinely and wanted the best for him. He should have invited people like us to Neverland instead of scum like the Rabbi, Uri Geller, Quincy Jones, etc. Amazing he ended up with them and not us.

I understand he felt a certain connection and bond with children that I will probably never fully understand.

There are many things I don't understand about Michael and this is one of them.

It's nice to know that there is someone else who has the same thoughts that I've been having, or at least close to.

It's good you guys are receptive, because I have these thoughts all the time, but I sometimes don't share them because they might be perceived as being critical of Michael. A real friend is able to give advice and offer constructive criticism. If I only said "Michael is great" all the time, I wouldn't be able to help him with all of this stuff. Today, it's too late to help.

Even saying he would feel safer being buried next to children

It's a very unhealthy thing to say.

But I do believe there was a problem that should have been addressed early

Bingo! Michael had the money to seek help, and there's no excuse in not going for help.

Someone should have told him that simply smiling or just being who he was was enough to be loved more.

If Michael sat down with any one of us here at MJEOL, he would have understood this. We don't love him because of his money, musical achievements, and all of his connections in the music industry. If he met people like us, he would have known to be himself.

A friend of mine just told me that I'm 'picking at his brain' too much

I do the same all the time.

By the way, if his family and friends did not tell Michael to see a psychologist, I am very upset with them. SOMEONE close to him should have told him, but not in a critical way...just advice from one family member or friend to another. This should be part of a good family/friend relationship: you tell the people you care about what they need to do in life to feel better.

 

[R e a f u]

Since we're on the topic of Mike's mental health and the way he views the world, I have to ask a question(and hopefully I won't offend anyone with it), why did society see the way Michael lived and acted as being wrong in the first place? Case in point with wanting to never grow up and live the childhood he never got to have. I'm sure everyone of you does something that may be seen as childish. Me for example, I still play videogames. I have a couple of the game consoles that I had as a kid growing up in the 90's(Everyone remember the sega genesis? How about super nintendo or the gameboy colour? I still have them, and every now and again, I'll take them out and take a trip down videogame memory lane.). As an adult, I should have given up gaming a long time ago right? But I don't it makes me happy, a few rounds in Street Fighter relieve stress. Michael played video games and then some! He had the money, so why not? He wasn't hurting anyone, why is it then that we have to question his mental sanity just because of the things he did for her personal entertainment? I'm sure he did plenty of "adult" things, but everyone is focused on the childish things and claiming he's not "right" in his head. If he isn't right, then I guess I'm not for living games I played when I was age 5-14.

And as for the children, what if it's just he's able to open up more around them? Or look at it like this, traditionally women are supposed to be naturally nurturing, caring, loving and whatever towards kids. Men, not so much, it's more important that they provide for the family. Here's a man who could provide and nurture! Is that so wrong? Yeah he definitely needed more adult friends who weren't around just to get something out of him, but it's pretty damn hard to make friends, let alone relationships when all you've experienced is people trying to screw you up in one way or another. If you ask me, I think the people that really need help are all the ones intentionally hurt Michael.

 

[Saphster]

Since we're on the topic of Mike's mental health and the way he views the world, I have to ask a question(and hopefully I won't offend anyone with it), why did society see the way Michael lived and acted as being wrong in the first place? Case in point with wanting to never grow up and live the childhood he never got to have. I'm sure everyone of you does something that may be seen as childish. Me for example, I still play videogames. I have a couple of the game consoles that I had as a kid growing up in the 90's(Everyone remember the sega genesis? How about super nintendo or the gameboy colour? I still have them, and every now and again, I'll take them out and take a trip down videogame memory lane.). As an adult, I should have given up gaming a long time ago right? But I don't it makes me happy, a few rounds in Street Fighter relieve stress. Michael played video games and then some! He had the money, so why not? He wasn't hurting anyone, why is it then that we have to question his mental sanity just because of the things he did for her personal entertainment? I'm sure he did plenty of "adult" things, but everyone is focused on the childish things and claiming he's not "right" in his head. If he isn't right, then I guess I'm not for living games I played when I was age 5-14.

And as for the children, what if it's just he's able to open up more around them? Or look at it like this, traditionally women are supposed to be naturally nurturing, caring, loving and whatever towards kids. Men, not so much, it's more important that they provide for the family. Here's a man who could provide and nurture! Is that so wrong? Yeah he definitely needed more adult friends who weren't around just to get something out of him, but it's pretty damn hard to make friends, let alone relationships when all you've experienced is people trying to screw you up in one way or another. If you ask me, I think the people that really need help are all the ones intentionally hurt Michael.

That is also a good point. He wasn't hurting anyone. There's nothing wrong with trying to make up for what you lost or was taken from you. But, it was more than just video games, toys, and a physical environment. It was a state of mind. It was almost like he created this certain state of mind that made me worry so much about him a lot. Like he lost touch with reality a few times and had to resort to isolating himself so much..I mean, he said he never wanted to grow old. The only thing that made me angry was the fact that he was saying if children weren't around then he would not want to live on. I don't like that. I really don't.

I don't understand why Michael would be seeing "spiritual" advisers like the Rabbi Shmuwhatever instead of psychologists. Spiritually, Michael was just fine. He was talking to the Rabbi about stuff he should have been telling a psychologist. Any responsible friend should have said to Michael, "Hey, listen. I appreciate that you're telling me this, but you should really follow this up with a visit to a psychologist. It's no big deal. Just go, and see what happens." It appears no one did this for Michael.

Right! I've been told to go see one as well. By a friend. Wasn't Michael seen by a psychologist during the trial and he was labeled as a 'regressed 10 year old'?

Exactly! We love Michael genuinely and wanted the best for him. He should have invited people like us to Neverland instead of scum like the Rabbi, Uri Geller, Quincy Jones, etc. Amazing he ended up with them and not us.

I know...but I'm sure they acted like sweet, understanding, and honest people when they were around him! People acted a certain way when they would be in front of Michael. And that's what makes me angry! How could you do that to someone like Michael?! As soon as Michael would turn his back they would be right there trying to stab him with a knife.

It's good you guys are receptive, because I have these thoughts all the time, but I sometimes don't share them because they might be perceived as being critical of Michael. A real friend is able to give advice and offer constructive criticism. If I only said "Michael is great" all the time, I wouldn't be able to help him with all of this stuff. Today, it's too late to help.

True. Michael had a lot of, "Yes, Michael. Yes Michael." type of people around him all the time. Sometimes I wonder that maybe sometimes....he wasn't able to handle the painful truth.

It's a very unhealthy thing to say.

I wouldn't say that's unhealthy. It's just not a normal thing in our type of society. But, then again our society has grown to be very unhealthy itself. So, we can't really judge if this was unhealthy or not.

If Michael sat down with any one of us here at MJEOL, he would have understood this. We don't love him because of his money, musical achievements, and all of his connections in the music industry. If he met people like us, he would have known to be himself.

Sometimes I wonder why he didn't just sit down with his fans more. Maybe he felt that we would be the ones who he couldn't act himself around. You know how fans see their idols as larger than life figures. He probably felt like we would agree with everything he did or say. But, I definitely would have told him how I felt about certain things.


I really liked this. I felt like an anvil was lifted off my shoulder. I've been wanting to talk about this for a long time now...

 

[R e a f u]

I mean, he said he never wanted to grow old.

And what's so wrong with saying you never want to grow old? Do you want to get older? I sure as hell don't! The day that I look at my head and I see more gray hairs popping up than black ones, it will be sad. I don't want saggy boobs, all kinds of joint pain and all that stuff. Maybe because I don't quite understand it, but menopause sounds kinda scary! Hearing the kind of discomfort and pain older people get, it's not fun. Yeah getting older is a part of life but it's not fun. I think that's all he was saying.

That is also a good point. He wasn't hurting anyone. There's nothing wrong with trying to make up for what you lost or was taken from you. But, it was more than just video games, toys, and a physical environment. It was a state of mind. It was almost like he created this certain state of mind that made me worry so much about him a lot. Like he lost touch with reality a few times and had to resort to isolating himself so much..

We all have to do whatever we have to do escape sometimes. I draw, write fics, and play video games to unwind and escape a little. He lived on a ranch with a theme park, movie theatre, arcade and God knows what other toys. If he really and I mean really lost touch with reality, wouldn't it have shown? Like wouldn't CPS have made an effort to remove his children(and I don't mean that tw*t Gloria Alred on her crusades), because they were neglected? Michael would have been even thinner and more gaunt looking and definitely wouldn't have been able to produce Invincible or tried preparing for This Is It near the end. Maybe I just can't see it, but I don't see Michael as having been lost in his own world. You hear stories of people being institutionalized for doing that, heck I was just reading about this guy(who supposedly has autism) who is "famous" on Youtube and imagines that he'll be able to make a videogame series out of his character, that is nothing more than a hybrid of Sonic the Hedgehog and Pokemon's Pikachu. No matter how many times people tell him that his character is a copyright violation, this fella holds on to his ideas and his little world for dear life. I don't see Michael as being that way, and trust me, the Youtube guy neglected other important aspects of his life for his gaming dreams.

The only thing that made me angry was the fact that he was saying if children weren't around then he would not want to live on. I don't like that. I really don't.

We all say dramatic things sometimes when we want show how passionate we are about something. I've sometimes said that I hate the taste of cough syrup so much, that I'd rather pour bleach into my eyes instead of taking the syrup that would help me with a cold. I currently have a cold, do you see me pouring the bleach? No! Still don't like cold meds, but I'm not going to do something as dramatic as purposely blinding myself. I think Mike just wanted everyone to know how much he cared about the less fortunate children of the world.

 

[HeavenSent]

We all say dramatic things sometimes when we want show how passionate we are about something. I've sometimes said that I hate the taste of cough syrup so much, that I'd rather pour bleach into my eyes instead of taking the syrup that would help me with a cold. I currently have a cold, do you see me pouring the bleach? No! Still don't like cold meds, but I'm not going to do something as dramatic as purposely blinding myself. I think Mike just wanted everyone to know how much he cared about the less fortunate children of the world.

Michael seemed quite staunch in his belief that he'd rather chose death. The excerpts from online really don't paint the picture of symbolism, he seemed he actually DID feel this way. And it wasn't just a one time saying either, he's repeated himself many times.

 

[Palmyra]

Case in point with wanting to never grow up and live the childhood he never got to have.

There is nothing wrong with doing childish things, paying video-games, running around in the rain, etc. It only becomes a problem when you convince yourself that you are something that you are not.

In the Martin Bashir documentary, Michael, in all seriousness, said he was Peter Pan. He wasn't joking at all. Michael was Michael Joseph Jackson (reality) and not Peter Pan (fiction). He seems to have convinced himself that he was Peter Pan. Nothing wrong with playing with water balloons, climbing trees, and all of these other things, and as long as you maintain a sense of reality, you're fine. The problem is that Michael appeared to have rejected reality. Peter Pan, after all, was a fictitious character.

All of the things he says about children also suggest that Michael was really caught up in the whole idea of being a child.

The really interesting is that, when Michael was younger (part of the Jackson 5), people listened to him sing and thought he had the voice/character of an adult much older than him. When he became older, the aging reversed....it is as if he became younger. When he was 15, people said he sounded like he was 40. When he became 40, people (and Michael probably) thought he sounded like he was 15. Remember the Benjamin Button movie with Brad Pitt? Michael reminds me of the character (psychologically, not physically as in the movie).

 

[Saphster]

And what's so wrong with saying you never want to grow old? Do you want to get older? I sure as hell don't! The day that I look at my head and I see more gray hairs popping up than black ones, it will be sad. I don't want saggy boobs, all kinds of joint pain and all that stuff. Maybe because I don't quite understand it, but menopause sounds kinda scary! Hearing the kind of discomfort and pain older people get, it's not fun. Yeah getting older is a part of life but it's not fun. I think that's all he was saying.

It's not always about fun. Growing older is the way of life. It is not this scary thing. I don't want to get wrinkly...but I don't want to stay little forever either. I wish I could stay the way I look right now and grow old and experience everything I can. I went through my childhood. I did not experience a lot. I was not allowed to have friends, sleep overs, or even phone calls to my house. My family was pretty strict. But, I did play a lot by myself. I think that's where it all went to. But, my teenage years were severely taken from me. Sometimes I feel sad that I'm not in high school anymore because the only time I was allowed to go out was to go to school. That's it. No friends, no boys, no phone calls at all. I had to fight to gain independence and never gained it. Now, I am sad because I'm in college and will never get those years back. They were taken from me. I tell my younger cousins, "Make the best of your years...don't be like me. Enjoy your youth." But, that doesn't mean I will go off and party every night like I wanted to. I will move on from it. I know there are other wonderful things that are waiting for me in the future. I'm not sure what they are...but I know they will be great. I cannot stay in the past. I refuse..

We all have to do whatever we have to do escape sometimes. I draw, write fics, and play video games to unwind and escape a little. He lived on a ranch with a theme park, movie theatre, arcade and God knows what other toys. If he really and I mean really lost touch with reality, wouldn't it have shown? Like wouldn't CPS have made an effort to remove his children(and I don't mean that tw*t Gloria Alred on her crusades), because they were neglected? Michael would have been even thinner and more gaunt looking and definitely wouldn't have been able to produce Invincible or tried preparing for This Is It near the end. Maybe I just can't see it, but I don't see Michael as having been lost in his own world. You hear stories of people being institutionalized for doing that, heck I was just reading about this guy(who supposedly has autism) who is "famous" on Youtube and imagines that he'll be able to make a videogame series out of his character, that is nothing more than a hybrid of Sonic the Hedgehog and Pokemon's Pikachu. No matter how many times people tell him that his character is a copyright violation, this fella holds on to his ideas and his little world for dear life. I don't see Michael as being that way, and trust me, the Youtube guy neglected other important aspects of his life for his gaming dreams.

Just because you can't see something physically doesn't mean it's not there mentally..

We all say dramatic things sometimes when we want show how passionate we are about something. I've sometimes said that I hate the taste of cough syrup so much, that I'd rather pour bleach into my eyes instead of taking the syrup that would help me with a cold. I currently have a cold, do you see me pouring the bleach? No! Still don't like cold meds, but I'm not going to do something as dramatic as purposely blinding myself. I think Mike just wanted everyone to know how much he cared about the less fortunate children of the world.

I'm sorry but some of the things he says is beyond him just being dramatic. He actually meant many of the things he said.

I'm not making Michael out to seem like the bad guy, or a creep. I love Michael. But I feel like he was too naive at times when it came to certain things and certain people. He was a good business man but he had a lot of bottled up emotions. Maybe it would have helped if he would have released them to people who specialize in helping people with bottled up emotions.

 

[candles]

I'm not making Michael out to seem like the bad guy, or a creep. I love Michael. But I feel like he was too naive at times when it came to certain things and certain people. He was a good business man but he had a lot of bottled up emotions. Maybe it would have helped if he would have released them to people who specialize in helping people with bottled up emotions.

that's how i feel too. sometimes as a fan i get so lost and think that everything was against Michael and defend everything, but there are some things i will say i will just have to accept. I believe that sometimes people have to face what is going on.

like to be honest, i was slightly relieved when he admitted there was something wrong with the whole mannequin thing. that's the first step, admitting that something is wrong, that there is a problem because without admitting that you have a problem, getting help wont mean anything. and i think that Michael needed help when it came to his fixation on childhood, period. I hope i'm not coming off too harsh, but that is what I think, and I could be wrong. but i do honestly think when he was crying out, talking about being depressed, talking about walking around at night SEARCHING for someone to talk to, that's crying out, to me. That's when I think people should have seriously sat him down and tried to help, tried to get him around people. If it meant his career taking a short break, that is what should have happened instead of always just 'going-going-going'. but I also think this was around the time in his life when he was starting to do better as a solo artist and the brothers/company wanted to know what he could do for them. that's where the concern lay, not in 'i'm feeling lonely. i dont have anyone to talk to'.

And Palmyra i think you mentioned something about the family. To be honest, I do think there were some family members that tried to reach out, but it might have been too late. then when someone reaches a point where they don't even want to listen to you, how do you help someone who doesn't want to help themselves? In Michael's mind, he was doing nothing wrong, and he wasn't, but the fixation on childhood was only putting him further in despair (as far as fearing getting old, choosing death over a life without children) and I dont think the allegations helped one bit.

 

[R e a f u]

Michael seemed quite staunch in his belief that he'd rather chose death. The excerpts from online really don't paint the picture of symbolism, he seemed he actually DID feel this way. And it wasn't just a one time saying either, he's repeated himself many times.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but after the trial and his acquittal, didn't he pretty much stop talking about children or at least saying things like that?

It's not always about fun. Growing older is the way of life. It is not this scary thing. I don't want to get wrinkly...but I don't want to stay little forever either. I wish I could stay the way I look right now and grow old and experience everything I can.

Same here! But I'm sure there's a reason we can't stay eternally youthful. And the certain level of freedom that comes with being an adult, all the experiences that come with it, make growing older worth while.

I will move on from it. I know there are other wonderful things that are waiting for me in the future. I'm not sure what they are...but I know they will be great. I cannot stay in the past. I refuse..

I keep hearing people talking about the importance moving forward and learning to let go. My guess is Michael had a really difficult time letting go. But can you really blame him? On the one hand, if Joe wasn't so persistent that his sons sing, we wouldn't have had all the amazing songs to enjoy over the years, but at what cost?

Just because you can't see something physically doesn't mean it's not there mentally..

No I understand, just I don't know...like I'm expecting something more telling. But the way I may react to something isn't the way another person would.

I'm not making Michael out to seem like the bad guy, or a creep. I love Michael. But I feel like he was too naive at times when it came to certain things and certain people. He was a good business man but he had a lot of bottled up emotions. Maybe it would have helped if he would have released them to people who specialize in helping people with bottled up emotions.

I get you. Yeah his innocence about certain things, I try to understand where he's coming from, but I'll admit that I just can't. I'm sure whatever he had to deal with when he was alone must have played a part in his outlook on life.

 

[Saphster]

like to be honest, i was slightly relieved when he admitted there was something wrong with the whole mannequin thing. that's the first step, admitting that something is wrong, that there is a problem because without admitting that you have a problem, getting help wont mean anything. and i think that Michael needed help when it came to his fixation on childhood, period. I hope i'm not coming off too harsh, but that is what I think, and I could be wrong. but i do honestly think when he was crying out, talking about being depressed, talking about walking around at night SEARCHING for someone to talk to, that's crying out, to me. That's when I think people should have seriously sat him down and tried to help, tried to get him around people. If it meant his career taking a short break, that is what should have happened instead of always just 'going-going-going'. but I also think this was around the time in his life when he was starting to do better as a solo artist and the brothers/company wanted to know what he could do for them. that's where the concern lay, not in 'i'm feeling lonely. i dont have anyone to talk to'.

See. This is why I love you guys. We are all on the same level!

I was extremely relieved when he said that he knew something was wrong with him. And yes someone should have stepped up and said, "Hey...you need help with etc, etc." instead of keep going at it.

 

[MJfan01']

I know that i need to talk to someone with my own issues. I think if Michael would have talked to a psychologist it would have helped him a great deal. There is nothing I can say that hasn't been said before. I agree with the previous posts made.

 

[CJluvsMJ]

Since we're on the topic of Mike's mental health and the way he views the world, I have to ask a question(and hopefully I won't offend anyone with it), why did society see the way Michael lived and acted as being wrong in the first place? Case in point with wanting to never grow up and live the childhood he never got to have. I'm sure everyone of you does something that may be seen as childish. Me for example, I still play videogames. I have a couple of the game consoles that I had as a kid growing up in the 90's(Everyone remember the sega genesis? How about super nintendo or the gameboy colour? I still have them, and every now and again, I'll take them out and take a trip down videogame memory lane.). As an adult, I should have given up gaming a long time ago right? But I don't it makes me happy, a few rounds in Street Fighter relieve stress. Michael played video games and then some! He had the money, so why not? He wasn't hurting anyone, why is it then that we have to question his mental sanity just because of the things he did for her personal entertainment? I'm sure he did plenty of "adult" things, but everyone is focused on the childish things and claiming he's not "right" in his head. If he isn't right, then I guess I'm not for living games I played when I was age 5-14.

You should see my brother! He acts exactly LIKE Michael. He hangs out with kids, works at a charter school, watch animated & kiddy movies, and acts like he's 15. My brother owned, and still owns most of, every single video game system, and their games, that ever came out, and he's 31! My brother had a childhood, and admitted that he had a lot of fun, but never parted from his video games, and spends his entire check on only rent, food, and games. :lol I just loaned him my Wii Zapper couple days ago so he can play certain games he just bought! And gave me his Wii for Christmas, and just bought another one a couple months ago. I sometimes forget that he's 31 and act like we are in the same grade, throwing paperballs at each other, oblivious to what the future holds in front of us.
I don't really see a problem with being childlike.
Plus, MJ's comment about not wanting to live without children, I really don't blame him.
I just thought about it: I have this annoying kid that lives next door to me, and all summer, he and his brothers kept climbing a fence, looking in my window, screaming outside, and kept hitting my window with bouncy balls when I'm sleeping.
He annoys me so much, but what would I rather deal with: an annoying bunch of kids throwing balls at my window, or ducking under my window from bullets because a bunch of adults are fighting outside?
I'd rather deal with those annoying kids throwing balls at my window.
I keep watching Dr. Phil and Maury, and they always say "think about the children" or "the children matter the most in this situation." What if all the children on earth were gone? All the problems on earth were caused by adults, and shoot, the first sin was caused by an adult! So if there were only adults, it will be like the survival of the fittest. Who would want to live with only adults?
Plus, I know you guys are upset that he wasn't around his fans as much, but MJ had a groupie problem too. Remember Dirty Diana and Billie Jean? Since his fans didn't have a sign tattooed to their chest, saying "I'm not here to get famous" or "I'm not here to have sex with you", how can he tell who's real or not by just looking at them? Children are ALL innocent, so he didn't have to do a backround check on them to know if they will turn their back on him, so it made sense why he was so comfortable around them.

It's hard for me to explain myself fully, but I hope someone understands.
:michaeljacksonicon:

 

[R e a f u]

You should see my brother! He acts exactly LIKE Michael. He hangs out with kids, works at a charter school, watch animated & kiddy movies, and acts like he's 15. My brother owned, and still owns most of, every single video game system, and their games, that ever came out, and he's 31! My brother had a childhood, and admitted that he had a lot of fun, but never parted from his video games, and spends his entire check on only rent, food, and games. :lol I just loaned him my Wii Zapper couple days ago so he can play certain games he just bought! And gave me his Wii for Christmas, and just bought another one a couple months ago. I sometimes forget that he's 31 and act like we are in the same grade, throwing paperballs at each other, oblivious to what the future holds in front of us.
I don't really see a problem with being childlike.
Plus, MJ's comment about not wanting to live without children, I really don't blame him.
I just thought about it: I have this annoying kid that lives next door to me, and all summer, he and his brothers kept climbing a fence, looking in my window, screaming outside, and kept hitting my window with bouncy balls when I'm sleeping.
He annoys me so much, but what would I rather deal with: an annoying bunch of kids throwing balls at my window, or ducking under my window from bullets because a bunch of adults are fighting outside?
I'd rather deal with those annoying kids throwing balls at my window.
I keep watching Dr. Phil and Maury, and they always say "think about the children" or "the children matter the most in this situation." What if all the children on earth were gone? All the problems on earth were caused by adults, and shoot, the first sin was caused by an adult! So if there were only adults, it will be like the survival of the fittest. Who would want to live with only adults?
Plus, I know you guys are upset that he wasn't around his fans as much, but MJ had a groupie problem too. Remember Dirty Diana and Billie Jean? Since his fans didn't have a sign tattooed to their chest, saying "I'm not here to get famous" or "I'm not here to have sex with you", how can he tell who's real or not by just looking at them? Children are ALL innocent, so he didn't have to do a backround check on them to know if they will turn their back on him, so it made sense why he was so comfortable around them.

It's hard for me to explain myself fully, but I hope someone understands.
:michaeljacksonicon:

Your brother sounds like my kind of guy :lol! I think I understand what you're trying to say, people can have all kinds of motives for wanting to get to know a person, especially someone as famous. While kids on the other hand, don't really have motives.

 

[sunshine.larrazabal]

By the way, if his family and friends did not tell Michael to see a psychologist, I am very upset with them. SOMEONE close to him should have told him, but not in a critical way...just advice from one family member or friend to another. This should be part of a good family/friend relationship: you tell the people you care about what they need to do in life to feel better.[/QUOTE]


I think Janet once said something like decisions in the end will be from Michael and Michael said it himself in one of the taped conversations--- "I am the captain of my ship. I take suggestions and listen to what everyone has to say, but the final decision is mine."

With Michael as perfectionist as he was, it was hard and we really don't know what was on Michael's mind, you know... Michael was no difference from people with obsessive-compulsive disorder but at least I find his was not as worst at all. I hope he went to a counsellor or as what you were saying Palmyra, a psychologist but I don't think this doctor would come out in the open and would easily say that---- yeah, I am the psychologist and he was my client for this long, I mean for sure this person will be bombarded with questions from people e.g. media, press, paps, and us, the fans then another chapter of his life has to be scrutinized once again and then people will again think how W_ck0 (I hate to say this term but I just said it!) was this Michael Jackson then! I mean ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! Poor Michael had to suffer..