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But that's the point. SHe didn't state a "fact". She stated her opinion. She has no way of knowing whether or not Michael has dated any other african american woman. She wouldn't be privy to that information. Like I said earlier, almost nobody knew about her so what makes her think she (or us) would know about any other black (latino, white or any) woman unless Michael wanted us to? So again no, she's not stating a fact. She's stating her opinion.Originally posted by mello1
Neither was I aware that an argument was pursuing.... I wanted to voice a different opinion from a perspective that a lot of you are not aware. Mills did not make racist statements, especially if it's the truth. It's a matter of Michael's preferences and she stated a fact.
Cristine87
New member
Exactly, Whisper! She don't know Michael's track record like that & it's bad enough there are people out there who think Michael's ashamed of his race, he don't need some old flame saying he didn't stay with her because of her color. She doesn't need to add fuel to that fire!
Yep, that too. I just think it was...messy for her to assume that. Maybe he lost interest in HER and she's still trippin' on that b/c she's bought into all of this media nonsense.Originally posted by Cristine87
Exactly, Whisper! She don't know Michael's track record like that & it's bad enough there are people out there who think Michael's ashamed of his race, he don't need some old flame saying he didn't stay with her because of her color. She doesn't need to add fuel to that fire!
I just think it was no point in bringing it up at all and projecting what seemed like her own insecurities onto him like that. This is someone who's probably been interested in and/or dated women of many different races and ethnic backgrounds; I have no way of knowing b/c he doesn't normally flaunt his relationships. He's also someone who's said the most beautiful woman in the world is Naiomi Campbell (I wish I can find that article), and she is FAR from a white woman.
senecajackson
New member
AAAW I think it's nice that they dated!
I would kill to see MJ in his underwear, and I'm pretty sure he's a hell of a kisser!!!
Lucky chick, I just didn't like that certain comment she made.
I would kill to see MJ in his underwear, and I'm pretty sure he's a hell of a kisser!!!
Lucky chick, I just didn't like that certain comment she made.
Originally posted by whisper
But that's the point. SHe didn't state a "fact". She stated her opinion. She has no way of knowing whether or not Michael has dated any other african american woman. She wouldn't be privy to that information. Like I said earlier, almost nobody knew about her so what makes her think she (or us) would know about any other black (latino, white or any) woman unless Michael wanted us to? So again no, she's not stating a fact. She's stating her opinion.
Oh come on now. I don't think that it's unreasonable to conclude from the individuals that we publically know about what his preference in women are. I don't know why you guys are so resistant to see the obvious or why his preferences would in and of itself be racist. Further, I would think that someone like Mills who actually knows the guy and has spent time with him in the past would be more privy to information than both you or I. Lastly, I did know about Mills' friendship with Jackson when it actually occurred so this is not new news to me.
Originally posted by Cristine87
Exactly, Whisper! She don't know Michael's track record like that & it's bad enough there are people out there who think Michael's ashamed of his race, he don't need some old flame saying he didn't stay with her because of her color. She doesn't need to add fuel to that fire!
We really don't know what Stephanie knows or don't know about Michael now. But I would suspect that she knew a lot about him during the time that they spent together in the past. Yet, I don't find it racist that she said that, I'm sry I don't. Nor do I find it racist over the preference in women that MJ chooses. People who has issues with who MJ dates is on THEM, not HIM.
On you come now. Again, the point is that you can't "conclude" anything from what you see "publicly". There are even references to other women he's dated in his autobiography. But for obvious reasons, he's not goint to share those names b/c he may be trying to protect their privacy.Originally posted by mello1
Oh come on now. I don't think that it's unreasonable to conclude from the individuals that we publically know about what his preference in women are. I don't know why you guys are so resistant to see the obvious or why his preferences would in and of itself be racist. Further, I would think that someone like Mills who actually knows the guy and has spent time with him in the past would be more privy to information than both you or I. Lastly, I did know about Mills' friendship with Jackson when it actually occurred so this is not new news to me.
This is the same situation with people thinking that he doesn't give back to the black community b/c they don't SEE him riding around the streets of Harlem with the bullhorn talking about his charitible work.
You have no idea what his "preference" for women is. Even I'm not silly enough to think that he's only dated the 2 women he's married.
As for Mills's alleged "knowledge", by her own admission she hasn't heard from Michael since Thriller. This is not information coming from someone who's been around Michael everyday for the past 20 years. This is coming from someone who hasn't seen him in ages, nor knows anything about who he's dated or the races of those women.
By both the family and her own admission, he dated Tatiana Thumbtzen for a period of time. She isn't exactly a blonde haired, blue eyed woman.
I can make an argument about not being consumed or drawing conclusions simply by what you "see". Going by what we "see" where Michael Jackson is concerned would have caused us all to believe he "bleached" his skin before the vitiligo revelation. Well, you didn't "see" any signs of vitiligo, so that means he doesn't have it, right? Right?? Please.
A
Anonymous
Guest
There have been a lot of wonderful women in my life, women whose names wouldn't mean anything to the readers of this book, and it would be unfair to discuss them because they are not celebrities and are unaccustomed to having their names in print. I value my privacy and therefore I respect theirs as well.
No one knows MJ's complete 'track' record. We know the public ones, but not the ones that he's had on the downlow.
Mills who actually knows the guy and has spent time with him in the past would be more privy to information than both you or I
Not True. They were friends..but I know that they weren't the best of friends to the point where she would know about all his past girlfriends, and the people he was involved with after her. He mentioned her in his book, but he didn't talk about her as if he was really close...as in lovers. She obviously felt more for him, than he felt for her.
I had seen the Broadway show too, which was certainly no letdown. I swear I saw it six or seven times. I later became very friendly with the star of the show, Stephanie Mills, the Broadway Dorothy. I told her then, and I've always believed since, that it was a tragedy that her performance in the play could not have been preserved on film. I cried time after time. As much as I like the Broadway stage, I don't think I'd want to play on it myself. When you give a performance, whether on record or on film, you want to be able to judge what you've done, to measure yourself and try to improve. You can't do that in an untaped or unrecorded performance. It makes me sad to think of all the great actors who have played roles we would give anything to see, but they're lost to us because they couldn't be, or simply weren't, recorded.
If I had been tempted to go onstage, it would probably have been to work with Stephanie, although her performances were so moving that I might have cried right there in front of the audience. Motown bought The Wiz for one reason, and as far as I was concerned, it was the best reason possible: Diana Ross.
You see how he ends that whole thing, talking about Diana..in such a way that you KNOW he felt a lot for her. Michael didn't think of Stephanie as a lover obviously.
and I guess you'd have to say she was my first love - after Diana. When I heard Diana Ross was getting married, I was happy for her because I knew it would make her very joyous. Still, it was hard for me, because I had to walk around pretending to be overwhelmed that Diana was getting married to this man I'd never met. I wanted her to be happy, but I have to admit that I was a bit hurt and a little jealous because I've always loved Diana and always will.
Wasn't Michael attracted to Diana Ross? Michael never has any trouble admitting to that.
Even if his public relationships have all been with white women, that doesn't make him a racist. That was a stupid statment Mello1. Don't throw that word around so loosely..Michael and racist in the same sentence is stupid. Especially since the man is black, as his whole family is..or are you one to believe that he's changed his skin color purposley because of that reason?
HeavenSent
New member
Oooh. this thread's about to go off the chain. I love discussion.
Bottom line. We don't know ISH about Michael's private relationships. Who he prefers, who he doesn't. He has never layed it out for us and the only thing we can go off of is what he has publically offered. But it ain't enough.
No, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that what Stephanie said is true. But we can't sit here and claim otherwise either. What we can conclude is based on common sense. Common sense would tell us that as long Michael is isn't all free and willing w/his love life, we won't know nada.
Vicky: ^ Mello1 stated that she/he doesn't think it's racist for Michael to choose whom he's chosen over the years.Even if his public relationships have all been with white women, that doesn't make him a racist
Bottom line. We don't know ISH about Michael's private relationships. Who he prefers, who he doesn't. He has never layed it out for us and the only thing we can go off of is what he has publically offered. But it ain't enough.
No, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that what Stephanie said is true. But we can't sit here and claim otherwise either. What we can conclude is based on common sense. Common sense would tell us that as long Michael is isn't all free and willing w/his love life, we won't know nada.
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Anonymous
Guest
By both the family and her own admission, he dated Tatiana Thumbtzen for a period of time. She isn't exactly a blonde haired, blue eyed woman.
That's one we wouldn't have known about if she and his family didn't say something. So what makes you think there aren't others? I don't think it's Michael's duty to tell the public everyone he's dated.
Yes his public relationships have been with white women, but like I said PUBLIC relations.
But I understand why a lot of black people see things a certain way, some of us just want to see him with his own at least once, so we don't feel left out.
Others need some kind of re-assurance that he's not turned away from his own race, which isn't the case.
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Anonymous
Guest
Originally posted by HeavenSent
Vicky: ^ Mello1 stated that she/he doesn't think it's racist for Michael to choose whom he's chosen over the years.
ohh, I see.
HeavenSent
New member
As a black woman, it peeves me when people try to justify NOT dating/marrying someone of their own while dating outside their race. It's like if you're gonna do it, do it. But don't put an entire group down in the process. That's when it bugs me.Originally posted by NevaehDreamz
But I understand why a lot of black people see things a certain way, some of us just want to see him with his own at least once, so we don't feel left out.
Others need some kind of re-assurance that he's not turned away from his own race, which isn't the case.
I've steered off the subject of Mike a bit. My thing is not to sit here and try to mull over anyone's preferences. I stated in one of my threads, that it's not a fans duty to try and control Michael and the decisions he makes because we're unhappy with it. I've said it before and I'll said it again, Michael's been lonely by his own admission. I want to see him happy so badly I don't care what color she is, lol. Maybe we should just chalk Stephanie's comment up to being bitter, lol.
Cristine87
New member
I'm enjoying this little discussion!
HeavenSent
New member
^^lol, me too.
Cristine87
New member
I just think it was out of line for her to make that comment!
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Anonymous
Guest
Originally posted by HeavenSent
As a black woman, it peeves me when people try to justify NOT dating/marrying someone of their own while dating outside their race. It's like if you're gonna do it, do it. But don't put an entire group down in the process. That's when it bugs me.
I've steered off the subject of Mike a bit. My thing is not to sit here and try to mull over anyone's preferences. I stated in one of my threads, that it's not a fans duty to try and control Michael and the decisions he makes because we're unhappy with it. I've said it before and I'll said it again, Michael's been lonely by his own admission. I want to see him happy so badly I don't care what color she is, lol. Maybe we should just chalk Stephanie's comment up to being bitter, lol.
:laugh yea. I don't care who it is either. I just want to see him settled down with someone that will stick with him until the end. Someone that will make him happy..he's just about to turn 46...where is SHE?!?!
Cristine87
New member
Originally posted by NevaehDreamz
..he's just about to turn 46...where is SHE?!?!
Give me some time, I'll get to him! :laugh
I agree with most of you guys. I just think her comment was very bitter. Michael has seen women of more than one race.
Huh?
Debbie, Lisa, Tatiana, has admired Diana Ross. That's all I personally know about, but then I haven't taken much interest in his past love life.
I don't think that it's unreasonable to conclude from the individuals that we publically know about, that we DONT know his preference. Who's to say he HAS one??
Ya never know, he might just fall for someone cus of their personality.
I don't think that it's unreasonable to conclude from the individuals that we publically know about what his preference in women are.
Huh?
Debbie, Lisa, Tatiana, has admired Diana Ross. That's all I personally know about, but then I haven't taken much interest in his past love life.
I don't think that it's unreasonable to conclude from the individuals that we publically know about, that we DONT know his preference. Who's to say he HAS one??
Ya never know, he might just fall for someone cus of their personality.