What was damaged in 8 years can\'t be fixed overnight, that\'s why.....

[MJfan01']

this is why I consider myself a moderate. I like some policies from both parties. I think bringing known terrorists to New York to be tried is a huge mistake. I think all these bail outs that we have had; including Bush's were a mistake. I think they are crazies on both sides of the spectrum. I think most news programs are biased. I have seen only pro Obama and Anti Obama; not just stating the actual facts. I think having one party majoring in Congress is dangerous. Republicans and Democrats need to work together. I really don't think anyone knows what they're doing.

 

[uranusbluedanger1]

Happy thanksgiving to everyone that celebrates it!

I've been reading some of your thoughts and I think I might have to wait until I'm less busy to address a lot of points you guys brought up. I'm glad we can discuss politics here, though I'm afraid that by expressing my views I might offend some people... so I will try to write out something later and be extremely tactful...

this is why I consider myself a moderate. I like some policies from both parties. I think bringing known terrorists to New York to be tried is a huge mistake. I think all these bail outs that we have had; including Bush's were a mistake. I think they are crazies on both sides of the spectrum. I think most news programs are biased. I have seen only pro Obama and Anti Obama; not just stating the actual facts. I think having one party majoring in Congress is dangerous. Republicans and Democrats need to work together. I really don't think anyone knows what they're doing.

Alright so this probably doesn't matter, but I'm a sucker for terms and using the right ones because it aids in the difussion of knowledge... and if people can't use the right terms about their government system then how can they criticize govt. rethoric, right...? The term for that would not be moderate, but a centrist. This is considered left-right politics sometimes. A moderate is a person that likes the idea within ONE party but does not take them to an extreme like a radical. A centrist is a person that likes several ideas from multiple parties. A person that thinks neither side knows that they are doing would not be a centrist. And, well, that in itself would not be moderate thinking at all... maybe you might want to look at some of the independent parties? People forget that even though republicans and democrats dominate politics, they are not the only parties out there...

And I agree. Most news programs are biased. Fox has a conservative slant. CNN a liberal one. Sadly, we don't have anything like the Associated Press for local news... just facts, nothing more. It'd be lovely to have, wouldn't it? But the problem is people like that slant because it adds a touch of humanity to a story and helps them identify themselves with their news. So, I wonder, would a paper that was just about the facts ever survive and succeed? I fear it wouldn't...

 

[2bad4ever2009]

this is why I consider myself a moderate. I like some policies from both parties. I think bringing known terrorists to New York to be tried is a huge mistake. I think all these bail outs that we have had; including Bush's were a mistake. I think they are crazies on both sides of the spectrum. I think most news programs are biased. I have seen only pro Obama and Anti Obama; not just stating the actual facts. I think having one party majoring in Congress is dangerous. Republicans and Democrats need to work together. I really don't think anyone knows what they're doing.

I totally agree with you on that one. With the dems majoring in both houses, they can ram anything down our throat, including becoming a dictating party. Look at venezuela, instead of one person being a dictator we COULD have a whole party dictating us.

That's why there's a balance of power written in the constitution to prevent that from happening. But people know how to vote who they want in there.

I'm all for whoever has morals and uses them to make decisions, not letting special interest groups finagle (Sp?) their way into politics. That's what I believe the Stimulus bills was, just a way for the dems to pay back their sponsors who help them campaign. It's done nothing to create jobs. I haven't seen the benefits of it in Montana or North Dakota, we still continue losing jobs here.

But all on the up and up, I'm thankful that we can still debate these things in a still a free country. I'm thankful that I'm spending thanksgiving with my in-laws and I'm thankful that I can come on here and read wonderful stories and talk politics with you guys even if we don't agree!

I'm thankful for everyone in my life and I wouldn't change a thing.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Eats lots of turkey!

 

[OneMoreChance]

Has this turned into the Happy Thanksgiving thread? I just wanted to say that everyone here on MJEL is in my thoughts today! Have a good day filled with lots of love, food and family! Lots of love to all of you!

 

[MJfan01']

Alright so this probably doesn't matter, but I'm a sucker for terms and using the right ones because it aids in the difussion of knowledge... and if people can't use the right terms about their government system then how can they criticize govt. rethoric, right...? The term for that would not be moderate, but a centrist. This is considered left-right politics sometimes. A moderate is a person that likes the idea within ONE party but does not take them to an extreme like a radical. A centrist is a person that likes several ideas from multiple parties. A person that thinks neither side knows that they are doing would not be a centrist. And, well, that in itself would not be moderate thinking at all... maybe you might want to look at some of the independent parties? People forget that even though republicans and democrats dominate politics, they are not the only parties out there...

Politics confuses me to death. lol All I can do is pray that everything turns out for the better. In four yeas if I feel that someone else can do the job better than I'll vote for them. As others have previously stated, I would not want this job.

 

[InspirationMoonwalks]

Well, this won't surprise anyone who has been on this forum regurally in the past couple of years, lol, but I am in complete agreement with the OP (and Carla, who once again appears to be on pretty much the same page as I am :lol:8-26-03fruits_apple). No offense to anyone on here who shares that view, but frankly, some folks act as if this deficit and this recession just sort of magically appeared on Obama's office desk when he walked in on January 20th. They seem to forget (or are just not aware) of the fact that the bulk of this debt was amassed during the two terms of Bush, the better part of that time, the Republicans, the very same ones who are complaining about it now and trying to pin it on the new administration, were the ones running it up, with tax cuts for the richest 1% and wars that were not even accounted , let alone paid for, before we went in. And they think they could do any better ANOTHER time around? What are they really offering now, except to say "NO!" to EVERYTHING Pres. Obama and the Democrats propose? Sure, all the plans may not be perfect (what ever really is, at least at first?), but hey, at least they are PLANS, ideas...as opposed to just saying "No!" to everything he and his administration proposes...party over country...

I agree! His approval rating supposedly went down 49%, but what the hell? Obama can't snap his fingers and make everything right again. He's the president of the united states and he has a hard job!

Exactly! :8-26-03respect: But I think a lot of people forget that in their first terms, ultimately very popular presidents like Clinton and even Reagan had much lower approval ratings at points...I think at one point, Clinton's was at a lower 40, 30 percential in his first term? I think I remember reading in Hillary's auto bio that at one point, they weren't even sure he'd be re-elected..but then he went on to beat the pants off Bob Dole in 1996 :lol And even at the lowest recorded approval ratings, Obama would still win re-election by like 6 pts, which is still an electoral landslide. So I ain't going to freak out about poll numbers and punditry, at least not at this early stage. Like Carla said, at least he is TRYING. I think anyone who thought this was going to be an easy ride was frankly naively kidding themselves. Look at the MESS the last administration left over. He has so much more on his plate than most other first term presidents usually have. I think a lot of people forget that.

I totally agree with you on that one. With the dems majoring in both houses, they can ram anything down our throat, including becoming a dictating party. Look at venezuela, instead of one person being a dictator we COULD have a whole party dictating us.

Well, with all due respect, what about when the Republicans had both Houses? It wasn't exactly like they took much of the Democrats' ideas then. And hey, the majority of the voting public did elect majority Dems, twice in a row now. Not trying to brag, lol, but I don't think this is necessarily a sign of dictatorship. And it's not like the Democrats haven't at least tried to include Republicans in these debates...the Republicans just don't want to play ball.

I've never seen this country so divided. It's almost scary and quite disheartening. We all pulled together after Sept. 11 and rallied behind our President, despite our beliefs. Why is so hard for us to extend Obama the chance to turn things around instead of hitting him at the starting blocks? This economy is affecting EVERYONE.

Exactly! They just don't seem to even want to give him a chance. Once again, party over country. (No, not EVERYONE in the other party--though I am obviously quite partisan, lol, I do at least try not to generalize-- but the leadership it would seem, and the majority of the Fox News/Limbaugh/Palin crowd).

I didn't vote to Obama, cause I knew this would happen. He was inexperienced from the get go, and Biden is too progressive to give a damn about himself. McCain wasn't much better, but I did like Palin, she had a good head on her shoulders I believe. But that's just me.

No offense, but what real experience does Sarah Palin have that Barack Obama does not? Especially when she quit in the middle of her first term as Governor and is now, for all intents and purposes, a full time Facebook blogger? :lol What would she be doing differently?


But although we are obviously on different sides of the political fence, lol, I just want to say that no one is going to ban/block/delete you for expressing your opinion. I happen to welcome (and actually enjoy) a healthy debate about these things, so long as it remains respectful. Even though I may disagree with your views, you still have just as much right to express them here as I do. So please,you or anyone else, feel free. And I do hope everything works out for you and your child. Best of luck!

 

[2bad4ever2009]

I'm not saying Bush was a saint! I was seriously thinking about sending my Stimulus money back when I recieved it, instead I used it to pay off my remaining credit card balance. I personally think that if we didn't have ANY of the stimulus's we would've recovered in time.

I mean, seriously, if you're over your head in debt, do you keep spending even more to get yourself out it? I wouldn't, you get yourself into more trouble. Just like spending money that isn't there, or printing it to spend it; it doesn't make sense. Pretty soon, your money isn't worth anything. Think about it this way, if you have a rare MJ poster, but then replicate it, pretty soon everyone will have one and it won't be rare and it looses it's value.

With the healthcare debate, I don't agree with the dems plan, I'm pro-life because I have a child of my own. I believe that we need reform, because medical expenses are outrageous, but I think there is a better way of doing this.

Besides, didn't the EU try this? Or something similar? How did that turn out? Just curious of those who are from Europe...

 

[HeavenSent]

The TARP funds were signed under bush, Obama carried it out. I just think about the total global collaspe right after Lehman Brothers went under. I'm glad for any stimulus. I just wish there was better oversight and accountability.

I was seriously thinking about sending my Stimulus money back when I recieved it, instead I used it to pay off my remaining credit card balance

I'm not trying to be smart, but help me understand this. It reminded me of this man I work with. He talked trashed about the Crash for Clunkers program, but he used it under the radar to buy his wife a car.

I see a pattern.

With the healthcare debate, I don't agree with the dems plan, I'm pro-life because I have a child of my own. I believe that we need reform, because medical expenses are outrageous, but I think there is a better way of doing this.

I agree with this. There's always a better way of doing things in Washington. That's why we need to work together instead of ripping the proposal. Because there's good in both sides. No one ever said the Dems have all the answers. When the Repubs had the majority, healthcare was pushed under the rug. Now that it's out in the forefront congress needs to realize that this is also the prime opportunity to stop being such arrogant sons of b's, and start linking ideas.

Don't see that happening though. It hasn't happened thus far.


EDIT: WELCOME BACK, TARA!! I knew you'd come to this thread :lol

 

[InspirationMoonwalks]

I'm not trying to be smart, but help me understand this. It reminded me of this man I work with. He talked trashed about the Crash for Clunkers program, but he used it under the radar to buy his wife a car.

I see a pattern.


...


EDIT: WELCOME BACK, TARA!! I knew you'd come to this thread :lol

Exactly.:8-26-03respect: It's kind of like the protestors at the health care town hall meetings over the summer. They yelled for the Government to "keep your hands off my healthcare!" yet in the same breath said, "but don't touch my Medicare!" I'm also not trying to be flippant, lol, but it's like, how can you be so reluctant/scared/cynical, whathaveyou about the Government subsidizing health care on a wider scale when you already trust it to do so on that level? (I wonder if some of these people realize that things like Medicare are also Government-run programs)? And what about things like Social Security or even other programs like Financial Aid or even the basics, like the Post Office? Honestly, where would (most) people be without at least some form or another of these things? Sure, Government is far from perfect and I'm not saying these programs are flawless or without the need for updates/reforms/etc down the line, but I just don't get this whole "The Goverment is the boogeyman" thing or "Socialism!" when a lot of the very same people who criticize it depend on it in some way themselves. I'm not pointing at anyone in particular with this, just in general....I see it a LOT during these debates and honestly, it baffles me. :idontknow

And thanks for the shoutout! :8-26-03fruits_apple lol You know I can't stay away from these type of threads for long...like honey to the bee! :lol

With the healthcare debate, I don't agree with the dems plan, I'm pro-life because I have a child of my own. I believe that we need reform, because medical expenses are outrageous, but I think there is a better way of doing this

But see, that's where I think the problem with bringing the whole abortion issue into this debate lies. I just think it's kind of a distraction from the main issue at hand, health reform, especially since both the Congressional and Senate plans honor the Hyde ammendment (no federal funding of elective abortions). I just don't see why any other language is necessary, which is why I strongly disagreed with the Stupak ammendment in the House (which goes as far as to ban abortions, even under private plans, even when the woman is paying with her own money) and really hope it gets left out of the Senate's version. To me, it just seems like smoke and mirrors, something to get the Republican base riled up against the bill and an excuse not to at least try to work with Dems to compromise (not that it's all Republicans; Congressman Stupak is a moderate-to-conservative Dem, so I guess I'd have to say that it's something to get social conservatives, people with religious objections, etc worked up to help bring the bill down, in general). No, even though I love my party, lol, it's not perfect by any means either, but I just feel like we are at least TRYING to compromise, some could--and do-- argue TOO much (as now, even a Public Option, which really, is a kind of compromise position from Universal Healthcare, is still under hotly contested debate and may be further watered down into a 'trigger'). Most of the Republicans in Congress just don't appear willing to compromise much at all. Heck, some have even come out and said that they wouldn't vote for ANY bill, even the ones with the most moderate-to-conservative of compromises. This just, I'm sorry, seems to me more like they just want to bring Obama and the Democratic Party down more than pass any kind of real, meaningful reform, which I think is a real shame. This issue is effecting too many people in very REAL ways that go far, far beyond any political debate....while a lot of these guys are collecting Government healthcare of their own (as every member of Congress, of either party, gets) in the process, while others are lucky to even be able to barely afford it, if they can at all.....:angry:

Besides, didn't the EU try this? Or something similar? How did that turn out? Just curious of those who are from Europe...

Well I'm not a European, but I do know that most people in most of those countries have health care and are not having to go bankrupt or worse (sometimes literally life and death) for lack of funds for health insurance. We are frankly behind most of the rest of the world on this..

 

[InspirationMoonwalks]

BTW--for those who pay attention to polls, lol--Pres. Obama's approval rating is back to majority support in the Gallup:

http://www.gallup.com

After being stuck at 49% for a week, President Obama has once again regained majority approval in Gallup Daily Tracking. He's at 51%. Most presidents who dip under 50% usuually regain majority approval in less than a month, President Obama managed to do it in a week. As the senate opens its HCR debate tommorrow and he rights the ship on the Afghanistan strategy in a nationally televised address (on all broadcast and cable networks) Tuesday at 8, these numbers should only go up. 56-57% by this time next Sunday I predict.

His disapproval is down to 40% as well.

Of course, CNN, ABC, CBS have him at between 53-56% so its not clear he ever lost majority approval but regardless he has it back.

http://www.democraticunderground.co...w_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=24187&mesg_id=24187

 

[Cristine87]

Well I'm not a European, but I do know that most people in most of those countries have health care and are not having to go bankrupt or worse (sometimes literally life and death) for lack of funds for health insurance. We are frankly behind most of the rest of the world on this..

Yeah, the United States is the only developed country in the world without a universal healthcare system. Canada, Cuba, France, England, etc. all have it and we don't. I asked some Canadians I met a while back if they liked it and they said they loved it. Why does every well-off country in the world have this and we don't? There are people who literally have to travel to Canada to be medically treated, cause they can't afford it here in the U.S.!